D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Spell Discussion

[Yaarel]

So you not understand what an example is? Make up any other four words and have them share tones/sounds. I don't really care. What they cannot be by RAW are four different words that don't have a common shared tone/sound.

Repeating this won't make it apply to what I'm saying. Wind chimes have specific tones. Are you arguing that they are a language because they have tones? I don't think you would argue that, so it's equally inappropriate for you to keep misrepresenting the mystic words as language when it's not language. It's only tones/sounds.

"Tones" and "sounds" are language. (Norwegian and Japanese are tonal languages.) There is no shared language. There are no shared tones. There are no shared sounds. Presumably cultures have trends, but each caster is unique.

 

[Yaarel]

Sure, you could do that. But they didn't, and they don't intend to, and they shouldn't.

The game goes from level 1 to level 20. You need a monster manual to cover that gap, unless you plan on only fighting other PCs. Now, people can homebrew anything, sure, but that is a lot of extra work. Or they would need to make the PHB unreasonably large.

I feel it is worthwhile to simply purchase one book, the 2024 Players Handbook, and start playing a complete game of D&D.

Hopefully, the 2024 Players Handbook really will have every rule necessary to play.

Obviously it is also worthwhile to buy other books as well, to enrich and vary the game.

 

[Maxperson]

"Tones" and "sounds" are language.

So you ARE arguing that wind chimes are speaking a language. And not just any tones now, but any sound, so my footfalls when I walk are saying something in a language. I can't argue with someone who is making that kind of claim.

 

[Yaarel]

So you ARE arguing that wind chimes are speaking a language. And not just any tones now, but any sound, so my footfalls when I walk are saying something in a language. I can't argue with someone who is making that kind of claim.

Consider smoke signals, light flash morse codes, hand sign language. These are languages. One can imagine a language using wind chimes, perhaps sounding similar to how a Bard plays a flute to cast spells.

 

[Chaosmancer]

@Yaarel

Here's an example. Wizard #1 says, "Somnaliomus" for his sleep spell. Wizard #2 says, "Makalithsom" for his. And wizard #3 uses, "Balsomicanthium" for hers. the words can vary, but they have to be mystic*, and use the particular** combination of sounds. If wizard #4 tries "Sleeeeeeeep" it will fail.

*Most spells require the chanting of mystic words.

**...rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion.

Just because they require mystic words doesn't mean they require the exact same mystic word syllables.

 

[Chaosmancer]

You don't need a MM ever. You can in fact just make up monsters via the DMG guidelines or just make stuff up and not buy the DMG or MM. Neither of those two books are needed to run the game. All you need is in the PHB.

Re-read my post to see the answer to your assertion, because I already covered it.

 

[Yaarel]

A magical language is like dreams. The dreams of each individual are unique. There might be some common themes and tropes in some of the imagery, especially culturally. But ultimately, only the dreamer can know what a dream refers to.

The effort of a spellcaster is to discover and comprehend ones own intuitive language. Every spellbook is unique.

 

[Maxperson]

Consider smoke signals, light flash morse codes, hand sign language. These are languages. One can imagine a language using wind chimes, perhaps sounding similar to how a Bard plays a flute to cast spells.

You are arguing False Equivalences there. Smoke signals, light flash morse code, etc. were designed for communication. You cannot show that the tones used for verbal were intended to be a language.

If the verbal component was not intended to be a language, then none of your language arguments mean anything since you have to use those non-language tones and they are recognizable regardless of language. If the verbal component was meant to be a language, then none of your language arguments mean anything since you must use the mystic words and not D&D languages. Either way the mystic tones must be consistent per RAW as they are "particular combinations" and are therefore recognizable as spellcasting.

 

[Maxperson]

Just because they require mystic words doesn't mean they require the exact same mystic word syllables.

Once again, since you guys won't read the books.

"...rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion." The magic for sleep is a particular combination of sounds with specific pitch and resonance." It does not say you can pick whatever combinations, pitch and resonance you want.

 

[Chaosmancer]

::sigh:: You didn't read either those results, did you.

Why would I? Yes, the DMG contains guidelines AND rules, what is so difficult about that?

You don't need paladin OR wizard, but you do need class(es). You don't need elf or human, but you do need race(s). The rules you need to run the game are in the PHB. You can chop some out, alter others and add in new ones completely, but you cannot change the fact that the rules needed to run the game are in the PHB.

You are also not everyone, so you need to stop viewing this as being about you. YOU might not need the starvation and difficult terrain rules, but they are there because the game of D&D needs to have rules like that.

Do you remember this post you LITERALLY just made?

You don't need a MM ever. You can in fact just make up monsters via the DMG guidelines or just make stuff up and not buy the DMG or MM. Neither of those two books are needed to run the game. All you need is in the PHB.

So, why do we need starvation rules? Why can't we just make them up? You've stated we don't need the MM, because we can make things up, well, why can't we make up classes, ancestries, and rules for starvation and difficult terrain? You apply one standard to one book, then another standard to the other book, with no rationale except "but this book said that book has rules in it"

I've never said or implied otherwise.

You keep saying they aren't rulebooks so... yes, you have both said and implied that the DMG and MM are not Core Rule Books, and then you felt specific need to mention splatbooks, which would be the only other type of book you could refer to those two as.

No.............it's.................not. You don't to make a guideline into a rule just because you want it to be. WotC decided that the rules needed for the game were in the PHB. THEY are the ones who got to make that decision. If you design a game, you can decide for your game that your monster book is full of rules.

Nowhere in any official material has it ever been stated that no rules for the game exist outside of the PHB. You have never explained why the Burrowing Rules are different from any other rule, except that they exist in the MM and therefore you refuse to except they are rules.

I have explained this. The DMG paragraph does not state that the only rules in the entire game of Dungeons and Dragons exist in the PHB and nowhere else. It states the rules to run the game are in the PHB, which is true, because the PHB covers the basics of D20 tests which are fundamental to the running of the game. That does not mean that literally everything else is a mere "guideline"

Show me where those are mystical languages with mystical words. RAW requires mystical words using specific sounds.

The Language of the Gods contains mystical words. The Language of Fire contains Mystical words. The language of entropy and evil contains Mystical words. RAW's requirement is met.

It's called the Arcana skill. Everyone has it.

No. Everyone can roll it. Not everyone is trained in Arcana. Training in Arcana is represented by Proficiency in the skill.

Those who counterspell are more versed in the mystical tones, because they use them constantly and were trained or intuitively(in the case of sorcerers) came to know them.

No where in the ability to counterspell does it give you special knowledge of words and tones. Nor does Counterspell require you to have used magic, or be a sorcerer. You are continually making things up.

You cannot sneak a verbal spell without some sort of specific beats general ability like sorcerers have.

Nothing about NOT SCREAMING LIKE A FOOL!!! requires a special rule.