D&D (2024) Here's The New 2024 Player's Handbook Wizard Art

 

[gorice]

It’s not a nonsequitur at all. You asked if it looks like she’s ever had to sacrifice anything for power. I answered. She looks like a person who belongs to at least two groups who historically lack power.

I don't understand. Being from an historically disadvantaged group =/= making sacrifices for power or knowledge. Power doesn't come at a cost if you're just innately superior.

I apologize if I gave the impression that I was accusing you of anything, that was certainly not my intent.

Thanks.

I would suggest that if pointing out the fact that the art depicts a woman of color in answer to you asking if she looks like she sacrificed anything for power makes you feel as if you are being accused of unthinking prejudice, you may be in a state of hyper-vigilance regarding such accusations.

I'm hyper-vigilant about everything. Which doesn't mean I'm always imagining things.

It is a silly pretend elf game though, and I get the distinct impression that you are taking it far more seriously than is warranted.

I think the fact that you're here, replying to this, suggests you do care. 'It's just elfgames bro' is a self-defeating statement. Rhetorically, it's a way of disavowing one's own emotional commitment while accusing one's interlocutor of being too invested ('umad bro?').

 

[Parmandur]

Just looking at Billy Christian's past work, and yeah, a lot of published Magic the Gathering pieces, but also found this cool piece from Bigby, thst on the artists page has pictures of the prep work and notes no AI was used, lots of dynamic action in previous pieces like this:

 

[gorice]

Yeah it amuses me that being female in a nice dress makes it sexed up, even when it's a full conservative bodice.

An outfit doesn't have to reveal skin to be revealing. The bodice is clearly designed to emphasise the bosom. Which is fine, I'm not a prude, but I think it looks silly, and doesn't suit a class that is basically a glorified librarian.

It's not though. While mythical Merlin was 400 years old (and half demon), Myrddin the bloke he was based on died in his 40s.
A lot of historic wizards like Roger Bacon and John Dee were in their 40s during their peak (okay Jogn Dee had a white beard too and lived to 81) and literary wizards include Ged Sparrowhawk of Earthsea who was younger.

The white beard Wizard seems to just be Gandalf

Ah, come on, I'm not talking about 'real' wizards, I'm talking about what people imagine when they hear the word 'wizard'. Old bloke with a big beard is the quintessential wizard.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing more old lady wizards and fewer pictures that look like lady wizards' photoshopped instagram profiles. Though I'm sure that ship has already sailed.

 

[ezo]

They did, and they were young as I said. They're not class-based - a Human is 15 + 1d4, an Elf is 100 + 5d6, a Halfling is 20+ 3d4 and so on.

Well, that is 2E. In 1E, obviously they were much older.

So the idea that this was normative is wild. And the claim was that it was normative.

Except you quoted a post where the person said, "usually" elderly, not always, and in no way (that I saw) implied PCs only, simple the established trope--like it or not.

I notice from your chart that MUs are not anywhere near the oldest, either - that's Clerics, by an absolute mile!

Well, I was looking at humans, but since you brought it up... For most of those races, PCs can't be clerics (since you were focused on PCs).:

For half-elves, the magic-user's maximum age 46, is only two below the cleric's of 48. Hardly "nowhere near the oldest."
For half-orcs, who can even be magic-users, thief is the oldest, not cleric.

Interesting that humans totally do not follow the same pattern where an Elf Cleric is on average 550 at starting time, but an Elf MU a mere stripling of 186, a Human Cleric averages 20, and a Human MU averages 33.

Not really when you consider that Elf Clerics and such were designed at the time to only be NPCs.

1e first-level human wizard magic-user rolls 33 years old:
View attachment 353565

LOL, I'd be curious if your prompt specified 33 years old??

You missed out spectacles.

Just stoking the flames, huh?

Yep, sure, seems ridiculous, so I guess I'll make fun about it... Not cool, really. And before you, or anyone else tries putting words in my posts (again), I never said anything about impaired vision being a "flaw".

oh c'mon, let's not pretend this whole debate would probably not happen if the art depicted a white male of the same age as the one doing the complaints!

Speaking only for myself, since this all got blown out of proportion after my comment was mistrude as meaning something it didn't, I can say, yes, I would still find it just as odd.

As someone who loathes contemporary superhero stuff, I don't think I'm sinister or foolish for disliking this.

No, you aren't sinister at all. I love superheroes---in "superhero stuff", not in "medieval fantasy"--which D&D mostly is to me (to be clear to everyone else!), which is why I don't like such are for "D&D".

As an aside: all the people digging up the 1st or 2nd edition age tables (because OD&D & basic didn't exist, I guess) to 'prove' me wrong about the likes of Gandalf and Merlin ought to be ashamed of their reaching pedantry.

Just to be clear, the 1E tables I brought up reinforce that magic-users are typically the oldest PCs, with the intent of supporting your point.

 

[Reynard]

An outfit doesn't have to reveal skin to be revealing. The bodice is clearly designed to emphasise the bosom. Which is fine, I'm not a prude, but I think it looks silly, and doesn't suit a class that is basically a glorified librarian.

There is so much going on in this post.

 

[Charlaquin]

I don't understand. Being from an historically disadvantaged group =/= making sacrifices for power or knowledge.

I mean, from an in-universe perspective, no, being a woman of color doesn’t necessarily indicate that she had to sacrifice anything to attain magical power. I’m just calling attention to the fact that this depiction of a woman of color with power doesn’t exist in a vacuum. If you like, you could say I’m “injecting real-world politics into the game.”

Power doesn't come at a cost if you're just innately superior.

I’m not sure I understand. Who’s innately superior to whom? Wizards to common folk?

I think the fact that you're here, replying to this, suggests you do care. 'It's just elfgames bro' is a self-defeating statement. Rhetorically, it's a way of disavowing one's own emotional commitment while accusing one's interlocutor of being too invested ('umad bro?').

I didn’t say I don’t care, I just think if you’re seriously concerned that characters being depicted as super-powered in media is somehow a bad influence on those who consume it, you may be putting a bit too much importance on what is ultimately just an enjoyable pastime. There exists a happy medium between “this is entirely frivolous and not worth caring about” and “this is a danger to impressionable youths.”

 

[FitzTheRuke]

LOL, I'd be curious if your prompt specified 33 years old??

Of course it didn't! The joke was that the average roll for age of a human magic-user in 1e is 33, but that it is (often, not always) imagined that Wizards look like that guy. My prompt was all the usual cliche description. That was the point.

 

[ezo]

Of course it didn't!

Ok, what if you try adding 33 years old in?

The joke was that the average roll for age of a human magic-user in 1e is 33, but that it is (often, not always) imagined that Wizards look like that guy. My prompt was all the usual cliche description. That was the point.

Well, for the average human PC magic-user anyway, at 1st level. Most artwork then didn't depict PCs at 1st level.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Ok, what if you try adding 33 years old in? Well, for the average human PC magic-user anyway, at 1st level. Most artwork then didn't depict PCs at 1st level.

Yes, I know. It was a joke. I wasn't trying to portray a 33 year-old Wizard.

But because you're curious - this is what adding "33 years old" does to the prompt:

 

[ezo]

Yes, I know. It was a joke. I wasn't trying to portray a 33 year-old Wizard.

But because you're curious - this is what adding "33 years old" does to the prompt:
View attachment 353652

Well, it cleaned up the beard anyway...