D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

FitzTheRuke · Apr 25, 2024

Clint_L said:
No thanks. I can do without your mansplaining of what is happening in my head.

Um... I wasn't speaking either to or about you! I'm sorry for the confusion.

Clint_L said:
Awww, thanks. It's not our fault, really, that we're not as smart and imaginative as you clearly are.

Yikes. I clearly did a poor job of expressing myself. If someone misunderstands you, it might be on them. When at least three people misunderstand you, it's almost certainly on you. This is on me. I did not intend to imply any of that, and I'm sorry that I sounded that way.

Clint_L said:
Okay, and you've decided that this is one such case? So...that's your opinion? My opinion is that these abilities obviously do not apply to things like oozes. I don't need to contort language to justify nonsensical actions. I just overrule them.

Yeah, I saw you express that way back, and I was entirely on board with you choosing to overrule it. I was only meaning to explain my thoughts on why I choose to go the other way, and I include myself in the gamers I described as often being too hung-up on words, whereas I didn't mean to imply that I include you in that group (as I don't know either way where you would stand on the subject). I was speaking too generally, and from my own perspective.

I think I'll bow out of this thread now, with my tail between my legs.

MichaelSomething · Apr 25, 2024

tetrasodium said:
someone mentioned how an a gelatinous cube dodges a trip (even lower in 3.5) or something like that. I think the answer is gravity & volume. Just for eyeball familiarity I pulled this from google & this calculator:

A standard 55-gallon drum has a diameter of 23 inches and a height of 35 inches. The inside dimensions of a standard 55-gallon steel drum are 22.5 inches in diameter and 33.5 inches in height.

Fifty-five gallons of water weighs 459 pounds, so depending on the drum, you're looking at around 500 pounds. Your drum could be heavier or lighter, depending on the density of your product.

These assume I converted size right. math class was a long time ago & parallelogram season gets forgotten yearly due to tax season schedule conflicts

a 10ft cube(10x1x1) of water weighs 624.28 pounds

A 100ft cube (10x10x1) of water weighs 6242.8 pounds

a 1000ft cube (10x10x10) of water weighs 62,427.96 pounds

Changing from water to sea water brings it up quite a bit.

Obviously a large sized cube would be harder to trip then a medium sized cube. Didn't 5E reduce or eliminate size modifiers though???

UngeheuerLich · Apr 25, 2024

Lanefan said:
More seriously, I'd like to know how one can possibly knock a 10x10' cube of jelly on its side without getting stuck to or absorbed by it in the process.....

Difficult. Maybe a giant can do it.

tetrasodium · Apr 25, 2024

MichaelSomething said:
Obviously a large sized cube would be harder to trip then a medium sized cube. Didn't 5E reduce or eliminate size modifiers though???

Not sure what you are driving at so I'll explain my ac note. When I looked up the gc on deb &d20srd it said ac6 for ddb & like 3-4 d20srd. I listed the weights if different volumes just to demonstrate how it scales. Pick the right one and you still have an enormous number that's going to need heavy machinery

Lanefan · Apr 25, 2024

Hussar said:
If only they used “off balance” instead of prone. Sigh. So many arguments could have been avoided.

I’ve seen cubes off balance pretty much every time one of my players throw a damn die.

Fair enough.

The ones where trip just doesn't work for me are those that truly do ooze along the ground e.g. a Black Pudding or a more typical Green Slime than those mentioned upthread. There, it's like trying to trip an ambulatory puddle that'll probably dissolve whatever you try to trip it with.

Lanefan · Apr 25, 2024

James Gasik said:
Pick up a gelatinous cube with telekinesis. Lift it in the air. Drop it. By the rules it should be prone after falling.

By the rules it should be dead after falling, depending how high in the air you got it.

Then again, either they've become much more generous with Telekinesis than I'm used to over the years or whoever's casting it is of colossal level; as a 10x10' cube of jelly would weigh a huge amount.

Vaalingrade · Apr 25, 2024

Lanefan said:
Fair enough.

The ones where trip just doesn't work for me are those that truly do ooze along the ground e.g. a Black Pudding or a more typical Green Slime than those mentioned upthread. There, it's like trying to trip an ambulatory puddle that'll probably dissolve whatever you try to trip it with.

Again, this is taking the word 'trip' far too literally.

'Tripping' is about putting your opponent into a vulnerable position that requires an effort on their part to get out of. that's it. Whether you literally stick out your leg and topple them, judo throw them over your hip, or stir some big weird ooze with enough vigor that it needs to reorient.

This kind of verbal literalism would also lead to saying a giant grabbing you in their hand isn't really grappling because they can't get a formal greco-roman hold on you.

Hussar · Apr 25, 2024

Lanefan said:
Fair enough.

The ones where trip just doesn't work for me are those that truly do ooze along the ground e.g. a Black Pudding or a more typical Green Slime than those mentioned upthread. There, it's like trying to trip an ambulatory puddle that'll probably dissolve whatever you try to trip it with.

To be fair, isn't green slime a hazard now, not a creature? So, it doesn't have any actual combat rules regarding it.

Or am I mixing my editions again?

Lanefan · Apr 25, 2024

Vaalingrade said:
Again, this is taking the word 'trip' far too literally.

To a point, perhaps; though had they meant something else such as 'disorient' or 'physically disrupt' I'd like to assume they'd have used a different word. That they used 'trip' (as did 3e, I think) tells me that's the visual they're going for: Jack tripping the Giant so he falls down the beanstalk or a hidden person tripping a pursuer to put them in a vulnerable position.

I more suspect they initially didn't think through the implied absurdities when using this ability on non-typical creature types, then when called on it they just doubled down instead of using common sense.

Vaalingrade said:
'Tripping' is about putting your opponent into a vulnerable position that requires an effort on their part to get out of. that's it.

Which is fine as an effect. However, 'trip' is IMO the wrong word to use for this as it strongly suggests we imagine...

Vaalingrade said:
Whether you literally stick out your leg and topple them,

...this: sticking a leg or stick or sword out and causing the target to stumble and fall; an action and visual we know just doesn't apply to a host of non-legged creatures.

My problem is I can't think of a better word. 'Stun' is already in use and kinda means something different anyway, ditto 'confuse' which is more a mental effect. 'Disorient' is close-ish but also implies mental confusion rather than just physical.

Anyone got any ideas here? (and smack to the first smartass who suggests 'trip')

Vaalingrade said:
This kind of verbal literalism would also lead to saying a giant grabbing you in their hand isn't really grappling because they can't get a formal greco-roman hold on you.

'Grappling' doesn't equate with 'wrestling'; the latter is a subset of the former.

Lanefan · Apr 25, 2024

Hussar said:
To be fair, isn't green slime a hazard now, not a creature? So, it doesn't have any actual combat rules regarding it.

Or am I mixing my editions again?

That green slime was made a hazard does ring a bell but I forget from which edition(s).

It's an interesting change because previously one, if suspicious, could cast Detect Life (or similar) to determine if that slime was the living dangerous sort. As a hazard, Detect Life won't pull it.

D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

Plan to adopt the new core rules?

Yep

Nope

FitzTheRuke

Legend

MichaelSomething

Legend

UngeheuerLich

Legend

tetrasodium

Legend

Lanefan

Victoria Rules

Lanefan

Victoria Rules

Vaalingrade

Legend

Hussar

Legend

Lanefan

Victoria Rules

Lanefan

Victoria Rules

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