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Fortunately for you guys, this will be my last post in this thread. I think I tired you enough with my rants. I know that I must sound like an egocentrical troll for saying so, but in my perspective none of your above posts touched the heart of the problem ... as I see it anyway. I stand firmly...

...And yet I try to make sense of a badly written paragraph which is both incompressible from a RAW standpoint as well as from a RAI one. This IS the question. "unseen in some way" ?????? You can't get more vague than that.. Boy, I would not want to play a rogue in your campaign where everyone...

Funny how when you quoted me, you missed out my starting phrase "Lets leave audible conditions out of this shall we? Again, they are not the problem" My answer to lichmaster should cover you.

I do not remove the "important audible aspect". I am saying that the visual one is incomprehensible, as I clarifed times and again above. But in order to see the problem you have to focus on the visual aspect only. Can you? ... focus on the visual aspect please? Try an example with characters...

Lets leave audible conditions out of this shall we? Again, they are not the problem. The problem is the following: Why should I even attempt to hide from view when the "seer" is already blinded? A character that is not hidden within a heavily obscured area shares the same benefits with one...

As you will note from my posts above, the problem is not the audible conditions but the visual ones. By underlining that you also need to be unheard in order to not be perceived, does not bring any clarity to the vagueness of the visual conditions: To attempt to hide from a creature, you must...

In all honesty no, it does not help. This is so poorly written that it actually makes no sense. Why would I need to hide if I am already unseen? ... if I am already out of sight? Why would I need to attempt to hide in an area where I am already heavily obscured in respect to others? An area...

I am sorry, i don't see how the above references answer my question. Nowhere is it mentioned, be that 5e or Level Up, that you need to be heavily obscured in order to hide. On the contrary: 5e: You can't hide from a creature that can see you clearly. ("clearly" was added later) ...which...

I was wondering why the "Stealth Expert" Feat, a.k.a. "ex-Skulker", copies the same incomprehensible text from 5e: You can try to hide even while you are only lightly obscured from the creature you are trying to hide from. When at the same time, anybody can attempt to hide when obscured...

I don't see how these nullify Move Silently, but perhaps you can elaborate. If you suggest, that when a character hovers a few feet above the dungeon floor, he does not need to roll for Move Silently, you are clearly house ruling.

Do you want a list of presidents and equally important figures, that have been assassinated in every way imaginable?

Don't worry. It's not like the put it out in the open. Something so important for the adventuring life of EVERY character should not have been simply mentioned as a side note under the survival skill.

In 3.5 everyone can track a DC of 10 (which includes footprints left in the snow)

This.

Hmm... Makes one wonder what would happen if a caster attempted to Discern Location on a creature that is hidden in a Bag of Holding... The bag of holding opens into a nondimensional space: Its inside is larger than its outside dimensions. ...and there's the fact that a Bag of Holding is...

Damn!!!! I made an entire thread about how this does NOT work!!!

James, I'm not "blocking" anything through magic, like Mind Blank does. I'm simply in another plane, other than the Material one. The Diviner knows where I am (through Discern Location), and he can scry and planeshift+teleport to my location if he so wants. What's the big deal? Again...

I'm not forcing anything on you. I 'm reading what is written. And I try to defend against those who read something that is not there. Nothing of the like :) I simply enjoy my new discovery! :D BTW, let me clarify: I wouldn't have a problem either with a DM that gives away the location of...

Sekhmet, I suggest you re-read Rope Trick. 1)...the whole rope hangs perpendicular to the ground, as if affixed at the upper end. The upper end (the rope's) is, in fact, fastened to an extradimensional space... It is the ROPE that is affixed/anchored to the extradimensional space, NOT a...

I suggest you read (or re-read my previous post). It covers much of what you said. ...I'm not circumnavigating anything. Discern Location WILL give you the location. But the location it will give you will not help any further. Rope Trick is not the only means of getting around Discern Location...