Rope Trick VS Discern Location... Rope Trick wins!!!

[James the Newbie]

Maybe we should think about how discern location works for the actual character? The spell says they get the exact location, and then lists what it would tell you. So first you would know the plain, then the planet, then the country, then the city, then the part of the city, then the building, then the room, and perhaps even the spot in the room.

So what happens if they are in a different plane? Seeing as it is a level 8 spell, and says it circumnavigates other measures of stopping scrying, I would just let it discern where the demi plane is located before giving their exact location.

If you are circumnavigating their ability to find you, without mind blank, your pretty much ignoring the words, and the spirit of the spell.

 

[Jimlock]

If you are circumnavigating their ability to find you, without mind blank, your pretty much ignoring the words, and the spirit of the spell.

I suggest you read (or re-read my previous post). It covers much of what you said.

...I'm not circumnavigating anything. Discern Location WILL give you the location. But the location it will give you will not help any further. Rope Trick is not the only means of getting around Discern Location. As previously stated, a desert, or any large place without landmarks and places that can be named can do the job. Distant mountains, plains...whatever have you.

It will tell you that the subject is in a demiplane of sorts, beyond the known planes... and that's that. Discern Location does not give you information on portals of the space your subject is in. It simply states the place's name. End of story.

As for the spirit of the spell as you claim, please reread my previous post.

One last thing. You said: it is a level 8 spell, and says it circumnavigates other measures of stopping scrying

Where did I, or anyone say something different?

 

[Animal]

Nothing to argue about, imho. Just one of those instances in the rules where DM fiat is acceptable (and even required if it's important for the plot). I would also rule DL to show where the RT originated from, but that's just me. I would be totally cool to play with a DM who'd rule otherwise.
Jimlock, i'm curious why'd you go to such great lengths to force on us the thought that this spell can only work the way you read it? Even tossing some real world physics into the equation? Did it come up in your own game and your DM is disagreeing with you? I'm curious to hear the story behind this thread.

 

[Sekhmet]

[MENTION=6674931]Jimlock[/MENTION]

... whole rope hangs perpendicular to the ground, as if affixed at the upper end... The window is present on the Material Plane...

The terms "affixed" and "present" would agree that the extradimensional space is anchored to a location on the Material plane.
At the very least, I am in an extradimensional space, in North America, in the USA, Virginia, Dahlgren, NSWC, Housing, My House.

 

[James the Newbie]

If your location is un-discernible through magic (other than mind blank) then clearly you have used a spell to circumnavigate the ability. If in the rope tricks pocket dimension you cant be found, you have successfully overcome the spell. So it must name the location of your pocket dimension.

And I don't mean to show you up, but I did read the other posts.

 

[Jimlock]

[MENTION=6674931]Jimlock[/MENTION]


The terms "affixed" and "present" would agree that the extradimensional space is anchored to a location on the Material plane.
At the very least, I am in an extradimensional space, in North America, in the USA, Virginia, Dahlgren, NSWC, Housing, My House.

[MENTION=97602]Sekhmet[/MENTION], I suggest you re-read Rope Trick.

1)...the whole rope hangs perpendicular to the ground, as if affixed at the upper end. The upper end (the rope's) is, in fact, fastened to an extradimensional space...

It is the ROPE that is affixed/anchored to the extradimensional space, NOT a location on the Material Plane.

2)Those in the extradimensional space can see out of it as if a 3-foot by 5-foot window were centered on the rope. The window is present on the Material Plane...

...Yes ANY portal is both present on the two spaces it connects (try playing PORTAL and PORTAL 2 on your computer. Both great games and they will help you get the picture )

The "side" of the portal/window looking out to the material plane is present in the extradimensional space, while the other side of the window/portal looking into (even though you cannot see) the extradimensional space is present on the Material Plane...

So.... no the extradimensional space is NOT in North America, in the USA, Virginia, Dahlgren, NSWC, Housing, Your House.

It is in some other plane.

 

[Jimlock]

Jimlock, i'm curious why'd you go to such great lengths to force on us the thought that this spell can only work the way you read it?

I'm not forcing anything on you. I 'm reading what is written. And I try to defend against those who read something that is not there.

Even tossing some real world physics into the equation? Did it come up in your own game and your DM is disagreeing with you? I'm curious to hear the story behind this thread.

Nothing of the like I simply enjoy my new discovery!


BTW, let me clarify:
I wouldn't have a problem either with a DM that gives away the location of the portal on the Material Plane. I'm not against Houseruling.

 

[Jimlock]

If your location is un-discernible through magic (other than mind blank) then clearly you have used a spell to circumnavigate the ability.

James, I'm not "blocking" anything through magic, like Mind Blank does.

I'm simply in another plane, other than the Material one.
The Diviner knows where I am (through Discern Location), and he can scry and planeshift+teleport to my location if he so wants. What's the big deal?

If in the rope tricks pocket dimension you cant be found

Again: Through Scry I CAN be found. The Diviner can even teleport inside the extradimensional space and get me.

you have successfully overcome the spell.

No. I have successfully overcome the challenge of being found. The spell I did not beat.

So?

So it must name the location of your pocket dimension.

I'm sorry, but there is no such must. It is all yours.

 

[anest1s]

I think Jimlock is right. You learn the name of the plane the creature is.

As a player I would demand to know the name of the "Rope Trick Plane" and the precise location within that plane. I imagine I would get an answer like "Rope Trick Plane, Bubble Number 13923". Then I go there (or send a creature that doesn't need the focus of planeshift, like a Demon :: d20srd.org) and say hello.

So I guess as a DM I would make things easier for everyone and just tell the enemies location.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I think Jimlock is right. You learn the name of the plane the creature is.

As a player I would demand to know the name of the "Rope Trick Plane" and the precise location within that plane. I imagine I would get an answer like "Rope Trick Plane, Bubble Number 13923". Then I go there (or send a creature that doesn't need the focus of planeshift, like a Demon :: d20srd.org) and say hello.

So I guess as a DM I would make things easier for everyone and just tell the enemies location.

I would go a bit farther and say that you learn the name of the rope trick's caster, in lieu of some other somewhat more arbitrary identifier (i.e. Bob's rope trick).