New Excerpts - Tome of Battle & Dragons of Faerun

gribble · Aug 3, 2006

It surprises me that no-one else has posted about this yet (maybe everyone's busy reading them), but:

Tome of Battle: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a
Dragons of Faerun: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802b

Some good stuff in there... two books I wasn't terribly interested in have become a lot more appealing.

Sammael · Aug 3, 2006

Now that we have the warblade, there is exactly ZERO reason left for anybody to take even 4 levels of fighter. 6 levels of warblade will net you more hit points, more skill points, improved uncanny dodge, two abilities that are at least as valuable as feats, provided you have an adequate Int score, and finally, the ability to take Weapon Focus and Specialization AND to change them to different weapons on a daily basis.

gribble · Aug 3, 2006

I'd like to see a build of the warblade alongside the fighter to be sure of that (after all, by 4th level a fighter would have a total of 5 feats, a warblade 3, and the warblade couldn't have specialisation by 4th level, unlike a fighter), but they certainly do seem like a fairly strong class.

I do have a question about how warblades recover their expended, readied maneuvers though. The excerpt says:

You begin an encounter with all your readied maneuvers unexpended, regardless of how many times you might have already used them since you chose them. When you initiate a maneuver, you expend it for the current encounter, so each of your readied maneuvers can be used once per encounter (until you recover them, as described below).

You can recover all expended maneuvers with a single swift action, which must be immediately followed in the same round with a melee attack or using a standard action to do nothing else in the round (such as executing a quick, harmless flourish with your weapon). You cannot initiate a maneuver or change your stance while you are recovering your expended maneuvers, but you can remain in a stance in which you began your turn.

So does this mean that in the middle of an "encounter" (however you define that) a warblade can recover all expended maneuvers with a swift action followed by an attack? Does this have to be a single attack, or can it be a full attack? Or are they still limited to once per "encounter" (again, however you define that - hopefully the book does)?

Gold Roger · Aug 3, 2006

I love the tome of battle stuff. It's definitely not for everyone, but it's perfect for me. It reminds me a bit of the manga Kenshin and some other manga.

The Warblade seems balanced, though it might very well overshadow the fighter a bit (though the loss of heavy armor and bonus feats still is a drawback). However, my games allow knight, duskblade, barbarian, paladin, ranger, psychic warrior, monk, hexblade, soulborn, scout, marshal and soon crusader, swordsage and warblade, so I'm not so sure the fighter is even needed anymore (except for more mundane NPC's).

Plane Sailing · Aug 3, 2006

Hmmm. The warblade seems way over the top in terms of a class at first glance (even without any special manouvres *at all* it looks like a kickin' fighting class, it is difficult to imagine how it would compare with an ordinary fighter).

I'll certainly be looking at the book. My hope is that combat manouvres and stances can be integrated easily into existing classes. If they can, it could be great. If they can't then I'm not going to be so interested.

I wonder how it would make as a True20 supplement

Cheers

Gold Roger · Aug 3, 2006

gribble said:
I'd like to see a build of the warblade alongside the fighter to be sure of that (after all, by 4th level a fighter would have a total of 5 feats, a warblade 3, and the warblade couldn't have specialisation by 4th level, unlike a fighter), but they certainly do seem like a fairly strong class.

I do have a question about how warblades recover their expended, readied maneuvers though. The excerpt says:

You begin an encounter with all your readied maneuvers unexpended, regardless of how many times you might have already used them since you chose them. When you initiate a maneuver, you expend it for the current encounter, so each of your readied maneuvers can be used once per encounter (until you recover them, as described below).

You can recover all expended maneuvers with a single swift action, which must be immediately followed in the same round with a melee attack or using a standard action to do nothing else in the round (such as executing a quick, harmless flourish with your weapon). You cannot initiate a maneuver or change your stance while you are recovering your expended maneuvers, but you can remain in a stance in which you began your turn.

So does this mean that in the middle of an "encounter" (however you define that) a warblade can recover all expended maneuvers with a swift action followed by an attack? Does this have to be a single attack, or can it be a full attack? Or are they still limited to once per "encounter" (again, however you define that - hopefully the book does)?

Seems to me that maneuvers can be recovered a unlimited number of times per encounter, you just sacrifice your opportunity of using any for the round you do so.

It says the recovery has to be followed by a attack. That says to me that you have to make an attack directly after the swift action, but that attack can be part of a full attack action. You have to "stay in the flow of combat" so to say (very flavorfull imho).

gribble · Aug 3, 2006

I like the class. It's tough, but I don't think it's overpowered. I can definitely still see a place for straight-up fighters (especially if using the feats from PHB 2, which I'm sure this class is balanced against).

Warblades bonus feats are both much less frequently earned than fighters, and the selection is *much* more limited.

Plus they suffer from Paladin syndrome. Str will obviously be very important, Int as well (because a lot of their class abilites rely on a decent Int bonus to be as useful as an equivalent feat/class ability), Dex is even more important than for fighters because of the lack of heavy armour proficiency (it's not even on their bonus feat list), and of course Con is important for a front line fighter. I can see a lot of low Cha warblades running around... despite their attempt to talk it up in the fluff...

Deadguy · Aug 3, 2006

gribble said:
I'd like to see a build of the warblade alongside the fighter to be sure of that (after all, by 4th level a fighter would have a total of 5 feats, a warblade 3, and the warblade couldn't have specialisation by 4th level, unlike a fighter), but they certainly do seem like a fairly strong class.

I do have a question about how warblades recover their expended, readied maneuvers though. The excerpt says:

You begin an encounter with all your readied maneuvers unexpended, regardless of how many times you might have already used them since you chose them. When you initiate a maneuver, you expend it for the current encounter, so each of your readied maneuvers can be used once per encounter (until you recover them, as described below).

You can recover all expended maneuvers with a single swift action, which must be immediately followed in the same round with a melee attack or using a standard action to do nothing else in the round (such as executing a quick, harmless flourish with your weapon). You cannot initiate a maneuver or change your stance while you are recovering your expended maneuvers, but you can remain in a stance in which you began your turn.

So does this mean that in the middle of an "encounter" (however you define that) a warblade can recover all expended maneuvers with a swift action followed by an attack? Does this have to be a single attack, or can it be a full attack? Or are they still limited to once per "encounter" (again, however you define that - hopefully the book does)?

From level 2 onwards, a Warblade knows more manoeuvres than he can have prepared at once. He expends a prepared manoeuvre when he uses it. To make it available again in combat he expends the Swift action and makes an attack (or Swift action plus a do-nothing Standard action). But the ones that are available to him are the same ones he started the combat with. He needs to spend 5 minutes preparing outside of combat to change them around.

At least that's what it seems to me from the text we have.

gribble · Aug 3, 2006

Deadguy said:
From level 2 onwards, a Warblade knows more manoeuvres than he can have prepared at once. He expends a prepared manoeuvre when he uses it. To make it available again in combat he expends the Swift action and makes an attack (or Swift action plus a do-nothing Standard action). But the ones that are available to him are the same ones he started the combat with. He needs to spend 5 minutes preparing outside of combat to change them around.

At least that's what it seems to me from the text we have.

Yeah, I got the bit about changing your prepared maneuvers and regaining already expended maneuvers being seperate things. Thats cool, and the above interpretations were the same as I had on first glance. It's just that it seems a little contradictory and confusing to interchange "once per encounter" with "a swift action followed by an attack (without maneuvers)". I can see a *lot* of warblades taking this option and using prepared maneuvers multiple times per "encounter".

gribble · Aug 3, 2006

Sammael said:
the ability to take Weapon Focus and Specialization AND to change them to different weapons on a daily basis.

I really like this, BTW. Anyone want to place bets on this becoming "standardised" and being available to all classes come 4th edition (or even sooner as a feat in the next complete X book or PHB III)?

New Excerpts - Tome of Battle & Dragons of Faerun

gribble

Explorer

Sammael

Adventurer

gribble

Explorer

Gold Roger

First Post

Plane Sailing

Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!

Gold Roger

First Post

gribble

Explorer

Deadguy

First Post

gribble

Explorer

gribble

Explorer

Similar Threads