Sons of Gruumsh (spoiler alert)

I'm running Sons of Gruumsh and I'd like to see if anyone who has run it previously has any advice to offer. I'm worried that a party of 4th-level characters are going to be hard-pressed to clear out the fortress. Can they feasibly get 8 hours of rest in as often as they'll need it? The current party consists of:

Rogue 4
Rogue 4
Fighter 4
Swashbuckler 4
Clrc3/Barb1

Of course, only the cleric needs to get spells back, and others will be resting just get hit points back, but even that's enough to be worried about.

I think you are over-emphasizing the amount of rest they'll need to complete the adventure.

Once the PCs get to the fortress, the majority of the encounters are 1st-2nd level orc warrior types. If they aren't terribly dumb about it, they should be able to sneak into the fortress and off a majority of the inhabitants without too much trouble. If they manage to draw the upper levels out into one climactic battle there will be some issues, but at that point finding a place to rest is relatively easy seeing as they've wiped out a majority of the inhabitants.

Your party seems to be built around stealth. Encourage that and they should have no problems.

I don't think my trepadations are that far off. On the first floor alone, there are encounters of EL 5, 3 EL 6's, and a 9.

Now, I don't own the thing, but as far as I know from reviews, the modul isn't designed to be "cleared out", but rather "get in, do the really important stuff and get the hell out. Return later to kill all the Orcs".

Regardless of the levels each orc possesses, there are 90+ orcs in the citadel. To think that a group of 4th level PCs will be able to slaughter them all during one strike is, to me, a little crazy. There are too many of them on the upper levels to allow a stealthy slaying without the bodies being discovered soon after. When that happens, the entire upper portion of the citadel will be roused, and realistically, the PCs could (or perhaps should) be overwhelmed (mass grapple checks, aid another ---> doom).

I'm sending my PCs (they'll be around level 6 at this time) to Xul Jarak as a "special forces stealth unit," but only after a large force of armsmen from Daggerford (FR Age of Worms campaign) and a number of NPCs and party mentors assail the keep itself, drawing out most of the orcs on the ground floor AND the wyvern. When the alarm goes up, PCs will slip in (climbing the outer wall using obscuring mist and silence spells), slice a few throats, and make their way down to the lower levels before any orcs from above know they passed through.

I can't imagine doing it any other way. Certainly a party without any area-damage spells will get in over their heads when 30+ orcs (perhaps more given the situation) gang up on the PCs. Sounds like a TPK to me if not handled with care.

It is, of course, possible to slip in, get downstairs, and clear out those lower levels without orcs from above realizing (unless one orc slips away to rouse the citadel, which is a strong possibility unless PCs are very perceptive).

From my experience of actually running the adventure, the PCs are going to need to kill almost every orc in the place. It's not feasible that they can get to the bottom level undetected unless they are substantially a covert team - not normal for D&D groups.

The PCs should be able to find a hidden base (cave, etc.) about a mile or two from the stronghold that they'll be able to retreat to. It isn't that hard to get into and leave the stronghold once they know what they're doing.

Cheers!

MerricB said:

From my experience of actually running the adventure, the PCs are going to need to kill almost every orc in the place. It's not feasible that they can get to the bottom level undetected unless they are substantially a covert team - not normal for D&D groups.

Click to expand...

It's comments like this that make me angry. I agree that the stronghold has an almost overwhelming force of orcs in it, but any PC group whose approach to it is to run in, kill, the flee and heal should be spanked. If their goal is to create the largest mass grave of orcs in the world, then I can see them getting killed quickly.

There are dozens of ways for PCs to approach it before they are forced to resort to killing. If your group is dumb enough to attack head on, give them the appropriate response...by the end of the session there'll be a group of orcs wearing PC-a*se hats.

Yes, there are quite a lot of orcs in this adventure. If you actually look at the breakdown, however, almost everything on the upper level is a 1 - 2 HD critter. There are only 7 monsters on the first level with more than 18 hps - and some of those are antagonistic towards other enemies (or, in the case of the Zhentarim, don't want to get involved directly.)

It's seriously doable.

Here's the breakdown of encounters on the 1st level. (The lower levels are seperate from the upper level, unless you allow them to raise an alarm.)
[sblock=Orcs]Orc Warriors (War 1) (5 hp) - 24
Orc Archers (War 2) (11 hp) - 18
Orc Berserkers (Bar 1) (14 hp) - 7
Orc Spearfighters (Ftr 2) (17 hp) - 2
Ogre (29 hp) - 1
Orc Sergeants (Ftr 3) (30 hp) - 1
Wyvern (59 hp) - 1
Vhazror (Bar 1/Ftr 6) (66 hp) - 1[/sblock]

These are other enemies in the upper level, but are either likely to attack one another or not get involved at all.
[sblock=Others]Small Monstrous Centipedes (2 hp) - 4
Orc Raiders (Bar 1/Rog 2) (19 hp) - 2
Mountain Orcs (Bar 2) (22 hp) - 2
Livikus Arthantar (Cle 5) (31 hp) - 1
Xeldar Orsalyn (Ftr 2) (19 hp) - 1[/sblock]

Yes, there are a lot of orcs. 47 with an ogre and a wyvern. Most of them are killable in 1-2 hits. If a party doesn't just charge into the fortress and start slaughtering things, if they pick off three or four at a time quietly, they can wipe out almost all of the orcs in the upper level without any problems.

I actually took a totally different spin on this module. One of my PC's is a half-orc barbarian that had previously ticked off ole One Eye by turning his back on the deity and slaughtering two orc shamans who where performing a rite to the orc deity. Fast forward a few sessions, and the party discovered a Deck of Many Things. Of course, the barbarian draws the donjon card...and is immediately imprisioned by the Orogs that are the crux of SoG. So, I tied in SoG by having the barbarian being imprisioned with the group of scions and trying to fight his way out before being sacrificed to Gruumsh. I needed to work the adventure 'backwards' and also tweaked the encounters for a higher level PC, but it turned out great. The other players in our group played the surviving scions and the player running Kalman Leiyraghon even murdered Oreal Nanther as they escaped the citadel to better his house's standing in Melvaunt. It was a blast.

I converted this module for 1e use, and i think it's pretty good. there a number of methods you can appraoch the ruins in which the orcs are holed up, and my players favored the kick-in-the-front-door, swords flashing approach. It's got a pretty classic story line, stemming off an invasion by some unruly orcs. It would be almost better as an introductory module, and when your players get ahole of the magic warhammer they are really gonna like that item, regardless of edition. I don't think this is one of those modules where you players are gonna have to make multiple trips to the dungeon, so encourage your players to just keep going if you can.

Have a blast, this module is great.