Sons of Gruumsh (spoiler alert)

[Mavrik]

After 2 sessions of discussion our party, scouted out with a druid in eagle form to get the layout on top, our rogue sneaked up the back outside wall and attached a rope and grappling hook to the wall. He then silenced and invisibly sneaked up on one of the archer guards and took him out...... thats when it all went wrong

He was spotted by one of the other guards who blew a horn and away we went. We fought 8-10 orc on the roof in a corridor on the roof. We did well and headed in found the secret door, but our plate mail charachters where heard from the main room and battle ensued. About 10 orcs... then came the ogre... then came the CR 7 fighter barbarian on his wvyern, who battered us. Two party members died, our cleric and druid and we have only been in the 3rd room !!!

This is a hard adventure, unless the party are specifically skilled up and magicked up to manage it. We had a cleric, knight, rogue, sorc and druid. A party of rangers and rogues could walk it, but the skills and magic at this level make it a deadly adventure. One lucky roll or unlucky by the players and the whole place is alerted.

Mav

 

[Felon]

Well, my party did it to me once again. They got literally within spitting distance of their objective--Thrull and the scions on the bottom level--and then decided to back off and go rest. I have no idea what players are thinking when they leave piles and piles of bodies in the central chambers of a dungeon, fail clear to clear out the extremities branching into them, and then just decide to leave for eight hours and expect everything to be as it was when they left.

Pretty much all that's left are Thrull and his lackeys (Rulgar the ranger and a handful of orc warriors), Jurrg the adept, the ambush drakes, Naazlog and his entourage (a dozen orc warriors), and the two ambush drakes.

I'm trying to figure out how they respond to what they find when someone goes to take a leak or something. The heroes ran upstairs to rest in the barbican. Should the orcs try to barricade themselves down below (knowing their secret doors have been discovered)? Should they try to comb the fortress for the intruders (which almost certainly means the PC's will be found)? Should they go ahead and kill the scions? So many choices, all bad.

 

[Kwitchit]

Wyvern in a 4th-level adventure? OUCH! It's a CR6 dragon, and WotC admit that dragons are under-CRed...

 

[Felon]

Wyvern in a 4th-level adventure? OUCH! It's a CR6 dragon, and WotC admit that dragons are under-CRed...

Well, my party was able to kill it within two rounds. Still, one failed Fort save against the Con poison would likely cripple a character for the duration of the adventure. Might as well kill him off entirely. The entire module is overgunned for 4th-level characters, especially since, as I remark above, it does not make allowances for what the orcs will do if the players pull out to go rest.

 

[Kishin]

Wyvern in a 4th-level adventure? OUCH! It's a CR6 dragon, and WotC admit that dragons are under-CRed...

A Wyvern is not a true dragon, which is mainly what WoTC was referring to. Its palette of combat options is much more limited, and most importantly, it lacks spellcasting.

 

[orangefruitbat]

My group ambushed an orc patrol outside the fortress and dressed up in the gear. Only one spoke Orcish so he was forced to do most of the talking. He taught each other character a number of pre-selected phrases (2+Int bonus) that they had to write down in advance. Comedy gold.

(The wyvern was sleeping so that encounter was avoided).

No casulties.

 

[HandofMystra]

Rescuing Princess Leia

My group ambushed an orc patrol outside the fortress and dressed up in the gear. Only one spoke Orcish so he was forced to do most of the talking. He taught each other character a number of pre-selected phrases (2+Int bonus) that they had to write down in advance. Comedy gold.

(The wyvern was sleeping so that encounter was avoided).

No casulties.

With tactics like these, I am so showing my group, of mostly eleven-year old players, the rescue scene from Star Wars when they get near the fortress.

 

[Arnwyn]

There were no more "small chunks on the upper level". As with Merric's experience, we had a mutha-load of guys chasing us from room-to-room, with others circling to get in front of us. We lost our shifter barbarian in one of those encounters. He charged down one of the groups alone (around a dozen orcs, with his AC 16 and maybe 40 hp left), screaming at the rest of us to run past. He took something like eight attacks of opportunity just to give us a window to flee. He was still fighting the next round when an orc sergeant critted him with a greataxe. Ouch.

This paragraph put a big stupid grin on my face. Very very cool.

 

[Lidgar]

Tpk

I have not read all of the posts here, but thought I would relate my experience running this little walk in the moors....

I ran the adventure as a sequel to the the Dungeon Crawl Classic #2: Lost Vault of Tzar Rho. The players, for the most part, are old veterans to D&D - they have been playing/DMing since the 70's. The party included a kobold druid (and his riding dog), an orc fighter, a 1/2 orc ranger, a human wizard, and a half-elf fighter/rogue. I had beefed up some of the encounters in the moors to account for the larger party size. The party made it to Citadel with a little difficulty, but at full strength.

Since the party included an orc character (who hailed from the same region), the orc and kobold attempted to bluff their way in. While I appreciate the strategy, this turned out to be quite deadly, for instead of the entire party trying to sneak in past the wyvern, the party split up (uh oh!) and the two walked right up to the front gates. This of course alerted Vazrhor, the wyvern, ogre, and lackeys. The rest of the party went around the citadel to the west flank at the breach in the wall while invisible. The bluffing by the orc and kobold was going ok - the plan was that the orc fighter would say that he found a tribe of kobolds that wanted to join Gruumsh's "chosen one." However, the kobold got a little uppity with Vazrhor; he did not take kindly the kobold's insinuation that he would be stupid to refuse help from his "army" (we were roleplaying here), so Vazrhor decided to lop his head from his shoulders. The flanking unit was in position by then, so all hell broke loose.

There was a tense moment when the party almost took Vazrhor down - he was at about 5 hp when he retreated and quaffed a potion - but then things went very bad. Problem was the entire party was stuck in the courtyard or the breach, so they were having to fend of a hail of arrows from the walls every round. The kobold was critically hit by the ogre (turned to paste), and the tank orc fighter went down to Vazrhor after he had healed up. The rest, they say, is history. TPK.

In the end, they enjoyed what they played of the module, but entering the keep is a tough cookie if not done just right. I am not a "killer DM"- my adventures rarely result in TPK (although having many party members die is not too unusual!), but these are guys that have been playing for 30+ years, so they expect a good challenge. My advice? If the party is all about 4th level and number only 4, consider having the fog cover the entire citadel. This adds more cover for the party to infiltrate and take things on at a more manageable level.

 

[Crust]

Should the orcs try to barricade themselves down below (knowing their secret doors have been discovered)? Should they try to comb the fortress for the intruders (which almost certainly means the PC's will be found)? Should they go ahead and kill the scions? So many choices, all bad.

I try to step out of the campaign and imagine what foes would do when PCs identify themselves as superior opponents.

I might suggest that Thrull and his lackeys flee into the Underdark if possible, perhaps fearing for their lives after discovering the carnage these adventurers have caused.

The orcs might certainly choose to go down in a blaze of glory. If you can't somehow imagine how Thrull might pop up again down the road (at the head of a newly-risen orc horde, perhaps, or part of a team of bounty hunters), then I suggest hurling him onto the PCs' swords.