Birthright: Is 4th Ed. the best D&D for it?

Pabloj · Jun 3, 2008

My initial thoughts are that indeed it is:

* Wizards and army battles: spell casters can no longer waist mayhem at whim (I mean, not as badly as before). I do realize that a battle should last about an hour, and you can make a few rituals in that time, but overall, I think these to get to play more nicely mechanic-wise. Still, I should look into this more closely when I get my books.

* Warlords: definitely in tune with the commanding armies theme. I think it can translate nicely from the tactical skirmish to the larger battleground.

* Elves: correct me if I´m wrong, but Birthright elves are quite "woods" elves, just like in 4th Ed.

* The "shadow plane" (I don't know it´s proper name) seem quite similar in both the PoL and Birthright.

I do realise some work needs to be done regarding the new races (dragonborn and tiefling), but it seems you can simply rule them out if you wish.

What are your thoughts?

Heselbine · Jun 3, 2008

The Shadowfell is a direct match for the Shadow World of Birthright.

Also, it will be much easier to run larger battles in 4e. All those minions wiped out by a single fireball! Close-formation tactics will not be a good option against a spellcaster.

I would very much like to see Birthright return. I thought it was very well thought-through, consistent, and atmospheric. I ran a Birthright campaign for a couple of years which played very nicely. Plus I still have all my Birthright stuff!

mmaranda · Jun 3, 2008

I thought similarly around the time of DDXP. Here were my gleemax musing on the topic before I became so frustrated with Gleemax I couldn't use it anymore.

http://www.gleemax.com/comms/Pages/Communities/DisplayProfile.aspx?blogid=3734&userid=12212

Mathew_Freeman · Jun 3, 2008

Heselbine said:
The Shadowfell is a direct match for the Shadow World of Birthright.

Also, it will be much easier to run larger battles in 4e. All those minions wiped out by a single fireball! Close-formation tactics will not be a good option against a spellcaster.

I would very much like to see Birthright return. I thought it was very well thought-through, consistent, and atmospheric. I ran a Birthright campaign for a couple of years which played very nicely. Plus I still have all my Birthright stuff!

If You Run It, I Will Play.

I would love to play Birthright again, either in person or by email or whatever. I really enjoyed that game, and even with a different character I think we could have some real fun with it under 4e rules.

Not sure if the Blood Powers (whatever they were called) would translate, or how it'd work, but we could work on that.

Nahat Anoj · Jun 3, 2008

I, too, believe that Birthright is a great fit for 4e. I think the skill challenge system could make for some truly badass statecraft situations.

Pabloj · Jun 3, 2008

If there is any email/forum/smokesigns Birthright game starting, I would love to be a part of it.

Giving additional thoughts, I remember that regions had 2 values representing its development and its mystical ratings. These could be used with great effect for rituals, or Feywild effects/proximity.

I agree skill challenges are great for those diplomatic tricky situations, specially since many characters can be involved.

Green Knight · Jun 3, 2008

* Elves: correct me if I´m wrong, but Birthright elves are quite "woods" elves, just like in 4th Ed.

They seem more like Eladrin to me, actually. Although I can see both versions existing in Cerilia.

And yeah, 4E does look like a good match for Birthright...

...EXCEPT for Blooded characters. How would you stat them out? They are, by nature, unbalanced. They're more powerful than non-blooded characters. Minor Bloodlines are more powerful than Tainted Bloodlines. Major Bloodlines are more powerful than Minor Bloodlines. And Great Bloodlines are more powerful than Major Bloodlines. Nevermind that that power isn't something that's governed by the level system. So how to represent that?

If You Run It, I Will Play.

I would love to play Birthright again, either in person or by email or whatever.

That's exactly why I'm looking forward to the virtual tabletop. It'll give me a chance to play games which I just can't find anywhere in town.

Pabloj · Jun 3, 2008

Perhaps it should be integrated into the core mechanics: feats, powers, parangon paths? So you can take "blooded" powers in exchange of regular "core books" powers.

The other approach would be to go towards the alignment solution: completely remove it from mechanics. Blooded is only a matter of status/roleplay.

A middle approach might be that blooded abilities only matter on the realm level, and keep them out of the traditional party combat. I think this would be the best method both concerning "balance" issues and giving the setting´s characters a distinct touch regarding other settings.

Mustrum_Ridcully · Jun 3, 2008

Green Knight said:
They seem more like Eladrin to me, actually. Although I can see both versions existing in Cerilia.

And yeah, 4E does look like a good match for Birthright...

...EXCEPT for Blooded characters. How would you stat them out? They are, by nature, unbalanced. They're more powerful than non-blooded characters. Minor Bloodlines are more powerful than Tainted Bloodlines. Major Bloodlines are more powerful than Minor Bloodlines. And Great Bloodlines are more powerful than Major Bloodlines. Nevermind that that power isn't something that's governed by the level system. So how to represent that?

I am not familiar with Birthright, but here's an example how to handle it:
Jedi are vastly more powerful then mere mortals - or so the theory goes.
So, in a Starwars game, there are to ways to do this:
- Jedis are just the best class there is. Basically, eveyone will play a Jedi or similar Force-Sentive
- Assume that Jedis are usually just higher level then Non-Jedis.
(From a description of the Jedi as in the prequels, Jedis begin their training as young children - no surprise that if you train using the light-saber with 6 years you can easily beat an equally old soldier that has been trained with his blaster rifle for a mere year...)

If we assume there are weaker and stronger bloodlines, just assume that these are due to level differences, that mere NPCs just can't overcome.
TO further represent it, all bloodlines might grant you powers that replace racial or paragon/epic features and special abilities, or class, paragon path or epic powers.
Weak bloodlines would only grant such powers up to a the end of the heroic tier (or lower), while a strong bloodline would still offer good powers at the epic tier.

From a game-balance point of view, Bloodlines don't change much, but they offer a little more flexibility in power selection.

Green Knight · Jun 3, 2008

Well, like I mentioned, bloodlines aren't really level based. Blooded characters are kind of like Immortals from Highlander. You kill another, you get his power. That's not something that can really be represented in a level system, as a character can level all the way to 30 without killing one, seeing very little increase in his Bloodline score (there're other ways to increase it, though. If I remember right, it's through Regency. I.E. Gain power from the land you rule), while a Level 10 could easily eclipse that Level 30 in Bloodline score by killing other Blooded characters on a consistent basis.

Although thinking about it, one way to do it would be to have a Bloodline Score as normal. You stab another Blooded character in the heart and you take his power as usual, increasing your Bloodline Score. That increase, however, doesn't actually give you anything. Instead, you'll have Bloodline Feats with certain prerequisites, like a Bloodline Score of 10, 20, etc. So if you increase your Bloodline Score, you get the option of getting certain Feats. Hmm, maybe.

Birthright: Is 4th Ed. the best D&D for it?

Pabloj

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Heselbine

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mmaranda

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Mathew_Freeman

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Nahat Anoj

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Pabloj

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Green Knight

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Pabloj

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Mustrum_Ridcully

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Green Knight

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