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D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Spells (New & Changes)
- Thread starter Tharizdun
- Start date
Archade
Azer Paladin
Durations
Y'know, many of the durations may have been reduced (on things like invisibility) to encourage people to use the Extend Spell Feat.
If people don't like the duration, create a homebrewed spell Everlasting Invisibility, that lasts 1 hour/level, and is 4th level. That'd be reasonable, by me.
Y'know, many of the durations may have been reduced (on things like invisibility) to encourage people to use the Extend Spell Feat.
If people don't like the duration, create a homebrewed spell Everlasting Invisibility, that lasts 1 hour/level, and is 4th level. That'd be reasonable, by me.
Fly Speeds
Wait, is this right?
Alter Self, 2nd level spell, 10 min/lvl?, can give a fly speed of 120 (up from 30).
Fly, 3rd level spell, 1 min/lvl, gives a fly speed of 60 (down from 90).
Overland Flight, 5th level spell, 1 hr/lvl, gives a fly speed of 40.
Even if the duration on Alter Self has been reduced to 1 min/lvl, why would you ever use Fly? Alter Self is lower level, gives you a faster flight speed, and it can do other stuff as well.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, it seems Fly is probably the only one of the above that can be cast on others. Still, if Alter Self's duration hasn't changed, Overland Flight is worthless.
Wait, is this right?
Alter Self, 2nd level spell, 10 min/lvl?, can give a fly speed of 120 (up from 30).
Fly, 3rd level spell, 1 min/lvl, gives a fly speed of 60 (down from 90).
Overland Flight, 5th level spell, 1 hr/lvl, gives a fly speed of 40.
Even if the duration on Alter Self has been reduced to 1 min/lvl, why would you ever use Fly? Alter Self is lower level, gives you a faster flight speed, and it can do other stuff as well.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, it seems Fly is probably the only one of the above that can be cast on others. Still, if Alter Self's duration hasn't changed, Overland Flight is worthless.
Last edited:
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
Re: Durations
That was rather poorly thought out "reasoning" if it was indeed the reason for the change. Extend Spell is primarily worthwhile for spells with LONG durations not for spells with short durations.
In 3e, one might extend a buff spell so that one would be prepared in case of an ambush. In 3.5, the buff spell won't last significantly longer, whether or not it's extended. (The difference between 5 and 10 minutes or 7 and 14 minutes is not significant as it isn't long enough to enable the spell to be used when combat isn't immediately anticipated ("we're exploring a very large and mysterious cave network and could face combat at any time within the next 3 hours or not at all") and the spell already lasted long enough to last through as many combats as the "go! go! go! Don't worry about traps, just find the bad guys before the spells run out!" adventuring mentality was likely to produce in a short period of time. The same thing applies to other spells. A 10 min/level spell like Fly or Stoneskin could be extended in 3.0 to ensure that it lasted the duration of a dungeon crawling day/exploration. Extending 1 min/level spells doesn't work (as demonstrated previously). And extending 1 round/level spells is usually pointless--they already last through one combat and extending them will rarely let them last through 2 combats.
Since Invisibility was the example you gave, it's worth exploring the potential uses of the spell. At 1 min/level, it's primarily useful for very short term trips--sneaking past the heavily guarded city gate (but you can expect it to expire before you get to the castle) or sneaking into position behind the hobgoblin with the alarm horn so that you can sneak attack him and keep him from sounding the alarm during the party's attack. Extending the spell doesn't enable you to sneak past the city gate, reach the castle, and sneak past that gate too. At 2 min/level, it still has roughly the same uses that it had at 1 min/level. OTOH, at 10 min/level, it probably is enough to get past the city gate and get to the castle as well. If it were extended (and cast at a good clvl), it might be enough to sneak into the king's counsel chambers and listen in on his secret meeting as well. (3 hours at clvl 9). Extend Spell increased the utility of the 3.0 Invisibility; it does next to nothing for 3.5e Invisibility.
Thus reduced durations makes the Extend Spell feat LESS useful rather than more useful.
That was rather poorly thought out "reasoning" if it was indeed the reason for the change. Extend Spell is primarily worthwhile for spells with LONG durations not for spells with short durations.
In 3e, one might extend a buff spell so that one would be prepared in case of an ambush. In 3.5, the buff spell won't last significantly longer, whether or not it's extended. (The difference between 5 and 10 minutes or 7 and 14 minutes is not significant as it isn't long enough to enable the spell to be used when combat isn't immediately anticipated ("we're exploring a very large and mysterious cave network and could face combat at any time within the next 3 hours or not at all") and the spell already lasted long enough to last through as many combats as the "go! go! go! Don't worry about traps, just find the bad guys before the spells run out!" adventuring mentality was likely to produce in a short period of time. The same thing applies to other spells. A 10 min/level spell like Fly or Stoneskin could be extended in 3.0 to ensure that it lasted the duration of a dungeon crawling day/exploration. Extending 1 min/level spells doesn't work (as demonstrated previously). And extending 1 round/level spells is usually pointless--they already last through one combat and extending them will rarely let them last through 2 combats.
Since Invisibility was the example you gave, it's worth exploring the potential uses of the spell. At 1 min/level, it's primarily useful for very short term trips--sneaking past the heavily guarded city gate (but you can expect it to expire before you get to the castle) or sneaking into position behind the hobgoblin with the alarm horn so that you can sneak attack him and keep him from sounding the alarm during the party's attack. Extending the spell doesn't enable you to sneak past the city gate, reach the castle, and sneak past that gate too. At 2 min/level, it still has roughly the same uses that it had at 1 min/level. OTOH, at 10 min/level, it probably is enough to get past the city gate and get to the castle as well. If it were extended (and cast at a good clvl), it might be enough to sneak into the king's counsel chambers and listen in on his secret meeting as well. (3 hours at clvl 9). Extend Spell increased the utility of the 3.0 Invisibility; it does next to nothing for 3.5e Invisibility.
Thus reduced durations makes the Extend Spell feat LESS useful rather than more useful.
Archade said:
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
Any word on whether the various size changes stack?
I can see some serious smackdown material if a combat reflexes based fighter were given both beneficial polymorph AND enlarge Person or, worse yet, if a cleric (magic domain) were to use a scroll of Alter Self to gain one size category then a scroll of Enlarge Person and then top it off with Righteous Might. Size= Gargantuan, Reach=20 feet (25 feet with a reach weapon), closing to 5' melee range provokes 4 attacks of opportunity. Ouch!!!
And Fighter/Wizards could easily achieve Huge size with just Alter Self and Enlarge Person.
I can see some serious smackdown material if a combat reflexes based fighter were given both beneficial polymorph AND enlarge Person or, worse yet, if a cleric (magic domain) were to use a scroll of Alter Self to gain one size category then a scroll of Enlarge Person and then top it off with Righteous Might. Size= Gargantuan, Reach=20 feet (25 feet with a reach weapon), closing to 5' melee range provokes 4 attacks of opportunity. Ouch!!!
And Fighter/Wizards could easily achieve Huge size with just Alter Self and Enlarge Person.
Demon Knight
First Post
No matter how many times you provoke an AoO, you can still only do 1 AoO on a single target per round, even with combat reflexes. A fighter closing on you with your Reach of 25ft would only provoke 1 AoO from you that round.
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
Demon Knight said:
Not true in 3.5. If you have Combat Reflexes, you can get multiple AoOs on a single creature for multiple infractions. Movement, however, only counts as one, so you'd only get 1 AoO for a fighter closing through reach.
A wizard who closed through reach, then cast a spell, however, could suffer two AoOs from the same creature in the same round.
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
Re: Fly Speeds
Note that the new Alter Self only allows you to transform into "humanoid" forms. In the core rules, there are no humanoids with wings; therefore, by the core rules you can't use alter self to gain flight.
Spatula said:
Note that the new Alter Self only allows you to transform into "humanoid" forms. In the core rules, there are no humanoids with wings; therefore, by the core rules you can't use alter self to gain flight.
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