3 weeks till new Who!

[Herschel]

I'm pretty sure it's playing on BBC America on Saturday, March 30, as well, so no bummer!

But BBC America does have artificially inserted commercial breaks, so semi-bummer. I'm excited for the return but somewhat irked there's a three-week gap between Ripper Street and it. BBC America may be the only reason I keep paying for otherwise already commercial television.

 

[sabrinathecat]

Moffat has repeatedly said that he is targetting the show toward 6-8 year old kids(where have he heard that before?), which is about the only explanation for the sudden drop in writing quality. Series 5 was so bad that even after 30 years of watching Who I was prepared to give up on the new show entirely. I gave series 6 a try strictly out of curiosity, and it was mildly better, but still very unfocussed.

 

[Umbran]

Moffat has repeatedly said that he is targetting the show toward 6-8 year old kids(where have he heard that before?)

I think that's a misquote. In an interview* back in 1995, discussing the Virgin "New Adventures" Dr. Who books, he said:

"Steven: But that's not what you want. My memories of Doctor Who are based on bad television that I enjoyed at the time. It could get me really burned saying this, but Doctor Who is actually aimed at 11-year-olds. Don't overstress it, but it's true. Now what the New Adventures have done, sometimes successfully, is to try and reinterpret that for adults, which has involved a completely radical revision of the Seventh Doctor that never appeared on television. That is brilliant."

I don't think that really speaks to which audience he's currently targeting.




* http://nzdwfc.tetrap.com/archive/tsv43/onediscussion.html

 

[sabrinathecat]

So how did we go from the author who brought us "The Empty Child", "Blink", the story in the Library, to, well, series 5?

 

[Morrus]

So how did we go from the author who brought us "The Empty Child", "Blink", the story in the Library, to, well, series 5?

Repeating "I didn't like series 5" in different words doesn't make your position any more universally true than it did the first time.

I like the current series just fine. So do 6-8 million other people in the UK, apparently. The recent Xmas special, in particular, was excellent.

Could we stop pretending our personal tastes are anything more than that?

 

[Morrus]

Moffat has repeatedly said that he is targetting the show toward 6-8 year old kids.

Has he, now? And not just once, but repeatedly? I don't think he has, has he?

 

[JustinAlexander]

Misquote or not, sabrinathecat is right: The show was getting truly dire during RTD's last years, but after an initial uptick at the top of Moffat's run the writing quality on the show has dropped precipitously again. "Sloppy" and "unfocused" are perhaps the kindest words that could be applied to it; phrases like "incoherent in its schizophrenia" and "mind-numbingly repetitive" would be more accurate. The presence of two scripts by Mark ("The Idiot Lantern") Gatiss in the second half of this season doesn't lead me to expect any particular improvement in the near future, either.

One of the major problem is that the show has reached a point where the constant repetition of what appears to be a limited pool of ideas begins to degrade the quality of previous material.

For example, I enjoyed "The Pandorica Opens"/"The Big Bang" as a conclusion to Season 5: Misguided assassination attempt on the Doctor results in the creation of a broken pocket universe and the Doctor is forced to sacrifice himself in order to reboot the universe, but it turns out he's able to prep a loophole and come back. I thought the method and motive of assassination was clever and well established by the meta-arc of the season; I thought the rules of the pocket universe were clear and interesting; I thought the loophole was played fairly and was also joyfully clever in its execution.

But then we fast forward a season and we find "The Wedding of River Song": A misguided assassination attempt on the Doctor results in the creation of a broken pocket universe and the Doctor is forced to sacrifice himself in order to reboot the universe, but it turns out he's able to prep a loophole and come back.

Only this time there is no motive presented for the assassination attempt; the method makes no sense; the pocket universe is a lot of sound and fury without clear or coherent rules to its existence; and the loophole is puerile.

We saw this same "deja vu decay" in RTD's run: A dalek accusing the Doctor of being a good dalek in "Dalek" was astonishingly brilliant storytelling that evoked what had happened to the Doctor and how it had changed him. The third or fourth time we came back to the exact same moment with Davros accusing the Doctor of the same thing (only this time in a context for which it made no sense in the middle of a plan to destroy the universe which also made no sense) it had lost all its impact.

It's actually been impressive how much the sheer charisma and talent of the actors has been making up for some truly atrocious scripts, but there's a limit to how much rope I'm willing to feed the show. The 8 episodes remaining in this season is the last opportunity I'm giving Moffat to convince me that the show is still worth spending time on.

 

[Morrus]

Misquote or not, sabrinathecat is right: The show was getting truly dire during RTD's last years, but after an initial uptick at the top of Moffat's run the writing quality on the show has dropped precipitously again. "Sloppy" and "unfocused" are perhaps the kindest words that could be applied to it; phrases like "incoherent in its schizophrenia" and "mind-numbingly repetitive" would be more accurate. .... It's actually been impressive how much the sheer charisma and talent of the actors has been making up for some truly atrocious scripts, but there's a limit to how much rope I'm willing to feed the show. The 8 episodes remaining in this season is the last opportunity I'm giving Moffat to convince me that the show is still worth spending time on.

Dude, if you couldn't enjoy, as a few which jump to mind immediately, The Girl Who Waited, The Doctor's Wife, The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon, Asylum of the Daleks, or The Snowmen - indeed, if you consider them "atrocious" - I can only say that your taste utterly, utterly, utterly differs to mine. Those are good writing. There's been one or two turkeys - as there always have been (Night Terrors) but overall the show is doing just fine. And the public agrees - millions of people watch this thing. The Snowmen was watched by just under 10 million people. That's 1-in-6 people.

 

[Nagol]

What I'm finding is I'm beginning to doubt it's real -- not the literal sense, but in way The Prisoner wasn't real. I'm beginning to believe The Doctor is either screamingly insane or at least the last couple of seasons are a visualisation of his last dying hallucination as he dies in the Time War.

This theory explains the increased reliance in odd plot device, weird pocket dimensions, sonic screwdrivers that can do anything when brandished (except when they can't because -- look shiny!), and strangely portended companions.

 

[Umbran]

So how did we go from the author who brought us "The Empty Child", "Blink", the story in the Library, to, well, series 5?

I'm just watching Series 5 now - just watched "The Lodger" Saturday, even. The season has been fine, solid and serviceable entertainment.

I don't know what standard you're comparing too, honestly. While they each had a fine points, it isn't like Eccelston and Tennant were always stellar. It isn't like most shows, or even any shows, are *always* stellar.

What I'm finding is I'm beginning to doubt it's real -- not the literal sense, but in way The Prisoner wasn't real. I'm beginning to believe The Doctor is either screamingly insane or at least the last couple of seasons are a visualisation of his last dying hallucination as he dies in the Time War.

Oh, I dunno. Classic who had its trippy periods too. It was the 1960s and 1970s, after all...