4th Edition and the Immortals Handbook

[Alzrius]

While technically you can create another brand and keep selling the old line, I don't think there is sufficient difference to make that distinction, so I can definately see problems arising if I try that stunt.

You can't make a 3rd Edition Conan the Barbarian book and then change the 4th Edition name to 4th Ronan the Barbarian and redo all the same material, which is basically what you are suggesting.

We don't know that to necessarily be true, at this point. That might be the case, but until we see the GSL, it could very well be possible that you could have the books be the same (edition-based mechanics notwithstanding) and just tweak the names of the title and the product line.

To say nothing of that having an existing set of 3.5E materials available won't seem to hurt at all, and will still likely bring in some revenue, no matter how small. I know you don't want to focus on 3.5E material at all, but if there's someone to translate future 4E materials you make back to 3.5 (hint, hint), then it shouldn't be too terribly much of a burden.

So the question is what 3rd Edition stuff I want to release between now and when I do something with 4th Edition. That may simply be the Gods portion of Gods & Monsters with elements of Grimoire, the Dimensional Magic rules and so forth as well as anything else I can think to squeeze in.

If that's the case, then I'd ask you to please put in everything you can think of. Since I seriously doubt that book will be given print distribution, please don't limit yourself based on page limits. It won't matter if the book has an odd number of pages, in that case, and for those of us who aren't converting, every little bit of what you'll give us is more than we'll ever get again.

 

[WarDragon]

If that's the case, then I'd ask you to please put in everything you can think of. Since I seriously doubt that book will be given print distribution, please don't limit yourself based on page limits. It won't matter if the book has an odd number of pages, in that case, and for those of us who aren't converting, every little bit of what you'll give us is more than we'll ever get again.

Hear, hear! I would vastly prefer getting the full Grimoire, but I'll take whatever I can get.

Seriously. We'll pay money for whatever you can get out. If you just brain-puke everything you were even thinking about for Grimoire and sell it, untested, we'd still take it and work the kinks out ourselves. Don't even consider doing art for it, that's taken as long as everything else together.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Alzrius matey!

We don't know that to necessarily be true, at this point. That might be the case, but until we see the GSL, it could very well be possible that you could have the books be the same (edition-based mechanics notwithstanding) and just tweak the names of the title and the product line.

Unless I happened to be in contact with my publisher regarding the matter over the past week and they do know at this point.

To say nothing of that having an existing set of 3.5E materials available won't seem to hurt at all,

If it was as simple to evade the GSL as you seem to think - all the big guns would be doing it, yet Paizo, Monte Cook and others remain with 3.5.

and will still likely bring in some revenue, no matter how small.

Most of these books bring in the majority of revenue within the first three months. While even the Bestiary pdf continues to sell there is no way to do 4E and keep them on sale legally. If I was making Monte Cook numbers from 3.5 I'd have to stop and think, but obviously I am not.

I know you don't want to focus on 3.5E material at all, but if there's someone to translate future 4E materials you make back to 3.5 (hint, hint), then it shouldn't be too terribly much of a burden.

I see that as more along the lines of free stuff and fan conversions of common elements though, not a wholesale conversion - in fact I don't think you could completely convert 4E to 3E although you could certainly have a go with spells and magic items.

If that's the case, then I'd ask you to please put in everything you can think of.

I will - it'll have everything but the kitchen sink.

Since I seriously doubt that book will be given print distribution, please don't limit yourself based on page limits.

It definately won't have a print version.

At this juncture I am unsure if Ascension (3.5) will get a print version.

It won't matter if the book has an odd number of pages, in that case, and for those of us who aren't converting, every little bit of what you'll give us is more than we'll ever get again.

I'll cram in everything I can find.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy WarDragon dude!

Hear, hear! I would vastly prefer getting the full Grimoire, but I'll take whatever I can get.

Seriously. We'll pay money for whatever you can get out. If you just brain-puke everything you were even thinking about for Grimoire and sell it, untested, we'd still take it and work the kinks out ourselves. Don't even consider doing art for it, that's taken as long as everything else together.

If the book has any art, it will probably be sketch art...which may actually turn out to be better than my regular art for all I know (sometimes working with more freedom yields better results).

 

[EarthSeraphEdna]

Well, I just skimmed through the three 4th Edition core books when I got my chance. It's a brave new world for all of us, I tell you. Onwards down the road of the 4th Edition Immortals Handbook, U_K, the system's great... but a little update on all the loose ends in the 3.5 Ascension would also be greatly appreciated.

 

[Anabstercorian]

What in there seemed relevant?

 

[EarthSeraphEdna]

What in there seemed relevant?

Nothings really changed much from what we've seen in the previews and excerpts. In fact, you could probably put together all of the basic mechanics from those excerpts alone, and you'd just be missing all of the examples of powers/items/whatever.

The at-will/encounter/daily power system is absolutely brilliant. There are only 4 epic destinies in the book though (Archmage, Deadly Trickster, Demigod, and Eternal Trickster), as opposed to the 6 epic destinies for 3.5 on the WotC website; U_K should note that you become a full-fledged demigod at level 30. Alignment got butchered into some awful single-axis thing: Lawful Good - Good - Neutral - Evil - Chaotic Evil, which means so much for U_K's alignment-based portfolios.

Magic items seem very limited, in that a magic item can only have one property at a time; there's no way to have a flaming vorpal sword, for example. Artifacts are quite interesting, in that they're all sentient and you have to please them, or else they'll abandon you and teleport to Timbuktu to never be seen again by you; of course, I imagine U_K will make artifacts wholly subservient to the immortals that rightfully own them.

Overall, it's a pretty damn good system, and I look forward to playing it. I've already got myself into a level 1 (hah, quite humbling) 4.0 game with my IRC group, and we're going to make a quick run through Kobold Hall (a sample level 1 adventure in the DMG full of... you guessed it, kobolds) and then Keep on the Shadowfell. Our group has unanimously decided that clerics and warlords are by far the most uber at the low levels, and somebody's already rolling up a cleric, and I don't want to take up the boring task of managing everybody's healing surges, so I'm going to be a dragonborn warlord! Of course, due to some... issues with the aesthetics of the dragonborn race, I'm allowed to play as a regular human-looking guy that has the dragonborn racial traits. Since the group is a rather light-hearted bunch, and I've got a bit of an in-joke with the name Chiquita Dragonforce for a female character, he's going to be named Peppito Dragonforce.

Once again, it's a brave new world.

 

[Upper_Krust]

List courtesy of a very nice person called Khaalis in the 4E news forum...

The Top 10:

1) Orcus - Level 33 Solo Brute

*cough* http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=8928440&postcount=164

2) Ancient Red Dragon - Level 30 Solo Soldier
3) Tarasque (Abomination) - Level 30 Solo Brute
4) Runescribed Dracolich - Level 29 Solo Controller
5) Godforged Colossus - Level 29 Elite Brute
6) Efreet Karadjin - Level 28 Soldier
7) Sorrowsworn Deathlord - Level 28 Lurker
8) Earthrage Battlebriar - Level 28 Elite Brute
9) Atropal (Abomination) - Level 28 Elite Brute
10) Adult Blue Dragon - Level 28 Solo Artillery

By epic id you mean Elites? If so about 90.
If you meant "epic Tier" ... about 75.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Adslahnit mate!

Well, I just skimmed through the three 4th Edition core books when I got my chance.

You jammy git!

It's a brave new world for all of us, I tell you. Onwards down the road of the 4th Edition Immortals Handbook,

Pencilled in my 4E plans last night. I will refrain from posting them for fear of not getting it all done before 5th Edition comes around. But lots of surprises and goodies in there.

U_K, the system's great...

I suspected as much.

but a little update on all the loose ends in the 3.5 Ascension would also be greatly appreciated.

I am off work for almost two weeks...in about a weeks time (I took the holiday to start on the day of the 4E launch) during which I'll have a 3.5 update.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Nothings really changed much from what we've seen in the previews and excerpts. In fact, you could probably put together all of the basic mechanics from those excerpts alone, and you'd just be missing all of the examples of powers/items/whatever.

The at-will/encounter/daily power system is absolutely brilliant. There are only 4 epic destinies in the book though (Archmage, Deadly Trickster, Demigod, and Eternal Trickster), as opposed to the 6 epic destinies for 3.5 on the WotC website;

Do you mean Eternal Hero rather than Eternal Trickster?

I thought Blade of Ragnarok was a tad Barbarian-y, maybe they are saving that for the PHB2.

U_K should note that you become a full-fledged demigod at level 30.

Well I have been thinking that 31-40 would be the Demigod Tier, though I would rather call it the Exalted Tier. Within which the first 5 levels would technically be Quasi-deity and the second 5 would be Demi-deity however you could say that Quasi-deity was simply just a lesser Demi-deity.

In the same way that the Immortal Tier will have (Lesser) Gods and Greater Gods, but they'll all still be Gods.

Alignment got butchered into some awful single-axis thing: Lawful Good - Good - Neutral - Evil - Chaotic Evil, which means so much for U_K's alignment-based portfolios.

Less portfolios to do perhaps.

Magic items seem very limited, in that a magic item can only have one property at a time; there's no way to have a flaming vorpal sword, for example.

Thats interesting, I sort of like the focus.

Artifacts are quite interesting, in that they're all sentient and you have to please them, or else they'll abandon you and teleport to Timbuktu to never be seen again by you; of course, I imagine U_K will make artifacts wholly subservient to the immortals that rightfully own them.

Indeed, although in such cases artifacts may have to be appeased and/or 'powered up' in some way to function.

Overall, it's a pretty damn good system, and I look forward to playing it. I've already got myself into a level 1 (hah, quite humbling) 4.0 game with my IRC group, and we're going to make a quick run through Kobold Hall (a sample level 1 adventure in the DMG full of... you guessed it, kobolds) and then Keep on the Shadowfell. Our group has unanimously decided that clerics and warlords are by far the most uber at the low levels, and somebody's already rolling up a cleric, and I don't want to take up the boring task of managing everybody's healing surges, so I'm going to be a dragonborn warlord! Of course, due to some... issues with the aesthetics of the dragonborn race, I'm allowed to play as a regular human-looking guy that has the dragonborn racial traits. Since the group is a rather light-hearted bunch, and I've got a bit of an in-joke with the name Chiquita Dragonforce for a female character, he's going to be named Peppito Dragonforce.

Once again, it's a brave new world.

Have fun.