D&D 5E [5e DM Help] Keeping the lid on....what builds should I NOT allow?

[Yunru]

Zardnaar, you shouldn't let Zardnaar build at your table. From how he states it he can make anything broken


The major point is that a build might be powerful in combat but not out of combat. A Great Weapon Master Barbarian's all well and good... but not so much at exploration or socialisation. If the three pillars aren't of equal height though, the table will begin to tilt.

 

[ccs]

I've always disagreed with this. Perhaps for pure combat, multiclassing weakens you, but none of my multiclassed characters ever felt weak to me. They felt fleshed out.

Agree. I MC if that is what will best represent the character I envision. If yes, MC. If no, don't.
For ex; I have a 12th lv tiefling wizard (divination). Story-wise I almost took a lv of paladin instead of that 12th lv of wizard. Almost. In the end I decided that the character just wasn't "there" yet RP-wise as far as becoming a paladin. Maybe going into 13th lv. And if not then, definitely for 14th lv.
Taking that 1 lv of paladin will NOT benefit the character mechanically. In fact the character will be a pretty awful paladin as far as stats/gear/& at this late stage in the game. But mechanical effectiveness isn't the reason I'll be doing this....

 

[Vulf]

Actually it does. You treat dim light as if it were brightly lit and total darkness as dim light. At least, for racial darkvision you do.

Also Warlock Multiclasses don't break the game, they just make it easier for Cha based characters to establish a baseline.

If your entire party has darkvision and goes without a torch or light cantrip so they can treat darkness as dim light for sneakier stealth checks, they get the penalties for perception checks as if in dim light. That means they are more likely to stumble into traps or miss an ambush.

Characters with decent charisma do not need Warlock levels to be effective. And Warlock Sorcerer does indeed break the game with Warlock slots into sorcery point shenanigans. Players will often multiclass into Paladin without explaining why a Paladin order gave a Fiend Pact warlock training. They're completely ignoring Paladin lore for some mechanical advantages, and that is part of powergaming.

 

[Yunru]

If your entire party has darkvision and goes without a torch or light cantrip so they can treat darkness as dim light for sneakier stealth checks, they get the penalties for perception checks as if in dim light.

Taken straight from the Half-Elf (the first race with darkvision my search found):

"Thanks to your elf blood, you have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray."

Emphasis mine.

 

[hejtmane]

So I have been very open with my players, that I was preventing non-standard builds until everyone was comfortable with the system.

I allowed Feats (with a couple of minor provisos), but banned Multi-Classing completely.

Options from SCAG were allowed, options from Elemental Companion were not.

The party is now 6th level, and everyone (including me) is comfortable enough with the system that I am prepared to open up pretty fully.


However I know some builds are bent, others are flat-out broken, so what lockouts do you suggest I impose?

The funny thing is the most powerful builds are usally non multiclass with a few exceptions

Straight Fighter Pole Arm + GWM can pump out ridiculous damage right behind that Straight Fighter 2H + GWM (Battle Master more damage, EK more survivability)
Straight Fighter Hand Crossbow with Crossbow Expert + sharpshooter

There you go this what most people call the broken builds like I said multiclass baha if you want to break something go straight fighter with feats

Case in point 10th level Hand Crossbow build and using action surge did a ridiculous 96 damage one attack cycle now he got lucky on all the attack roles with a ac 20 no advantage but he rolled 14+ every role

 

[smbakeresq]

I find balancing to be easier in this version then others. The over the top wizard that was prevalent isn't really anymore, and the magic items have been toned down somewhat. So is the cleric that essentially negates all HP loss and mitigates conditions, like the pacifist in 4E.

The MC issue is handled easily, ask for story why and if they don't have one in about 30 seconds then its just PG as the only reason and disallow it. Another easy way that works in my group is XP cost that's paid, or working with a players absence for a session and his wanting to MC to put him behind the group in XP to simulate time away from game to enter new field. An enterprising way is for the group to train each other, then its just a strait XP fee. This also pushes a player to MC earlier, when it makes sense in a "career" as opposed to getting rid of a dead level.

The GW fighter builds are nothing, I played Dragon Age, where you just see hordes of scattershot, pinning archers as you moved up. I have never found them OP. Same with sharpshooter, they are good builds but a little terrain or even high winds can tone them down. All of these things can be worked with as long as you play monsters as their intelligence allows. A dragon that is the BBEG would certainly know most of every characters favorite attack routine so would avoid it.

Going the other way, I am DMing for the kids, age 10 and 8. Princes of the Apocalypse, and I have to play a wizard and a cleric since they have the fighter and rogue covered. I let them roll for abilities, the old standard of 4d6 drop lowest to make them a little stronger since we only have four and I read somewhere the game is built around groups of 5. The balance isn't an issue, being a little ahead such as 18 in main ability at start helps out a lot and that advantage has flattened out at current level of 4, where they can take a feat (more exciting) than an ASI. Also, using the point buy system never made sense, since it creates predictable builds.

I myself am playing a dwarf battlerager barbarian in another game. The dice rolls came up with 9 in intelligence and wisdom. Its great fun to occasionally force the group into a combat as talk over a perfect plan too long. Get inspiration every time also.

 

[Vulf]

Taken straight from the Half-Elf (the first race with darkvision my search found):

"Thanks to your elf blood, you have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray."

Emphasis mine.

When any character with darkvision is in darkness, they will get the penalties to perception associated with dim light. People try to make use of darkvision while in darkness, by not carrying a light source so they can sneak up on monsters, but they run the risk of failing to notice traps when they do so. Because of the dim light rules.

Anyway, OP, I would recommend you use point buy, it helps curb feat use. You don't have to stick to 27 points either if it is a home campaign, 31 points would give them a bit more flexibility without changing much. Just make usre they know you can't buy higher than 15 before racial bonuses.

 

[mellored]

I've always disagreed with this. Perhaps for pure combat, multiclassing weakens you, but none of my multiclassed characters ever felt weak to me. They felt fleshed out. People change, they grow, they become something else than they decided to when they were 18. Deals are made. Alliances forged. Weaknesses revealed that the character wants to improve upon. The Sorcerer who decides they are tired of always being weak and frail, so they start training to be a Fighter. The Bard who wants to play music better than anyone, then finds himself face to face with a Devil that can make it happen. The Barbarian who realizes he was called to be the servant of his god, thus becoming a Cleric. Or paladin. Or whatever.

It's fine to play a character who is weaker (or stronger) than the rest of the party. But only if you and your party know that's what's going to happen.

 

[Yunru]

When any character with darkvision is in darkness, they will get the penalties to perception associated with dim light. People try to make use of darkvision while in darkness, by not carrying a light source so they can sneak up on monsters, but they run the risk of failing to notice traps when they do so. Because of the dim light rules.

Oh yes, I just assumed that most of the time there'll be Dim Light (since even moonlight can count).

 

[faria]

I would allow everything honestly. No build is 'broken'. Some don't really make sense though...

Common bullsh*t builds:
Paladin 5/Warlock 3 for extra spell slots and non-stop smiting. His deity would abandon him if he sold his soul for power...
Moon Druid X/Monk 1 for the AC boost. Kung Fu Panda isn't a thing...
Lore Bard X/Life Cleric 1 for the heal boost. "I tried religion once... Not my thing. Learned some tricks though." Come the f*ck on.

At the end of the day, it's just a game. We all play for different reasons. Some people care more about powergaming than character background (this is the optimization forum afterall). Who's to say what we should find fun? Let your players make the characters they want to play. As DM/God, you have the power to balance things in your game via other means.