5e Immortal Rules

[SkidAce]

Glad you found it [MENTION=83242]dave2008[/MENTION], the ideas, concepts and flavor definitely separates mortals from gods.

Make sure to read the intro story about Set, as an example of the difference.

The "excel" calculations of power levels? Yeah, maybe not.....but it was how we did things back in the day...

 

[dave2008]

I have added a Toc / Outline for an Immortal DM's guide. Love to here your thoughts.

Now, with these rough outlines off my chest I will post future updates over on the original thread: 5e Epic Character Updates (Immortal Rules)

 

[CapnZapp]

These TOCs doesn't really say much (and are hard to read in the app).

Does this mean we need to know the old Immortals module to get up to speed?

 

[dave2008]

These TOCs doesn't really say much (and are hard to read in the app).

Does this mean we need to know the old Immortals module to get up to speed?

Sorry, I didn't feel like entry information twice. It became a lot of work and hassle with my other threads, so I want to try to eliminate that here.

Hmm, familiarity with OD&D Immortals, 3.5E Deities & Demigods & Epic Level Handbook, and my 5e Epic Character updates would help - but I don't think it is required. I hope to have something meatier for review relatively soon.

 

[Distracted DM]

In my limited experience, stacking another 10 levels on top of the core 20 seems like a recipe for disastrous slog and confusion among players and GMs unpleasantness.

I have to imagine that resetting everything to (immortal) zero, or some form of "mega damage" (like from ?RIFTS? as much as I wouldn't usually look to RIFTS) but as a whole system would be one way to go.

I am curious about the original Immortal rules; did anyone check out those 5e Immortals rules on DTRPG earlier in the thread?

I followed a rabbit hole to Immortals and now I'm curious what folk have come with and, hopefully, have actually used

edit: Screw it, I bought those DTRPG rules to check'em out

 

[Distracted DM]

did anyone check out those 5e Immortals rules on DTRPG earlier in the thread?

edit: Screw it, I bought those DTRPG rules to check'em out

Well, I'm skimming the PDF:

It has rules for making magic items, domain rulership, generating a multiverse/planes, making/using immortals, and time travel/manipulation rules.

It's interesting but the part about Immortal character building is not what I'd be looking for.
On one hand it has you abandon your old character class, race, etc. You're an immortal now, you have 300+hp to start with and use a new resource, mana, to do Immortal stuff. Lots of interesting stuff here! But it's all using bigger numbers. I really don't want bigger numbers- that's one of the reasons I didn't like the idea of "laying another 10 levels on top of 20." It does nix the other issue because you've left behind your class and congrats, now you're an immortal with all different forms and can't REALLY die etc.

So, useful for running an immortals game, but what I'd be looking for to make Immortal characters.

 

[dave2008]

Well, I'm skimming the PDF:

It has rules for making magic items, domain rulership, generating a multiverse/planes, making/using immortals, and time travel/manipulation rules.

It's interesting but the part about Immortal character building is not what I'd be looking for.
On one hand it has you abandon your old character class, race, etc. You're an immortal now, you have 300+hp to start with and use a new resource, mana, to do Immortal stuff. Lots of interesting stuff here! But it's all using bigger numbers. I really don't want bigger numbers- that's one of the reasons I didn't like the idea of "laying another 10 levels on top of 20." It does nix the other issue because you've left behind your class and congrats, now you're an immortal with all different forms and can't REALLY die etc.

So, useful for running an immortals game, but what I'd be looking for to make Immortal characters.

The immortal rules you downloaded is a fairly straightforward translation (to 5e) of the old D&D Immortals Rules from 1986. I good starting point (which was my starting point as well), but not a robust set of rules as a platform for a modern RPG.

FYI, I was headed in a direction similar to what you suggested. Though there was some bit of increasing numbers (I felt you had to show some advancement that way); however, the major increase came at each tier/ divine rank (every 5 levels) when your power jumped by 10. However, instead of all your numbers (HP, damage, & DR) going up by 10, you just change their modifier. So demigod might have 250 macro HP, while a greater god might have 300 tera HP. So the greater gods numbers have only increased by 50, but it actually has over 1,000x the number of hit points. Here was the basic chart of modifiers


Virtual Size Categories

RANK	STATURE	MODIFIER
Demigod	Macro	x10
Lesser god	Mega	x100
Intermediate god	Giga	x1,000
Greater god	Tera	X10,000
Elder god	Peta	X100,000
Over god	Exa	X1,000,000

 

[Distracted DM]

The immortal rules you downloaded is a fairly straightforward translation (to 5e) of the old D&D Immortals Rules from 1986. I good starting point (which was my starting point as well), but not a robust set of rules as a platform for a modern RPG.

FYI, I was headed in a direction similar to what you suggested. Though there was some bit of increasing numbers (I felt you had to show some advancement that way); however, the major increase came at each tier/ divine rank (every 5 levels) when your power jumped by 10. However, instead of all your numbers (HP, damage, & DR) going up by 10, you just change their modifier. So demigod might have 250 macro HP, while a greater god might have 300 tera HP. So the greater gods numbers have only increased by 50, but it actually has over 1,000x the number of hit points. Here was the basic chart of modifiers


Virtual Size Categories

RANK	STATURE	MODIFIER
Demigod	Macro	x10
Lesser god	Mega	x100
Intermediate god	Giga	x1,000
Greater god	Tera	X10,000
Elder god	Peta	X100,000
Over god	Exa	X1,000,000

Haha yeah I had thought "should you just use milli/centi/deci etc but rename them."
Because I guess the extreme version of what id be looking for is "you're immortal, so mortal stuff can't really touch you.. if it can't deal "mega damage"/(insert whatever name) then it's pointless, won't hurt an immortal, etc.
But with that, you're essentially making a new game... Ugh. I'm sure sure that if you're making a completely new game about being an immortal, youd probably be better served using a non-D&D system

The modifiers is definitely an interesting idea.

I wonder if anyone else has toyed with the concept for 5e.

 

[dave2008]

Haha yeah I had thought "should you just use milli/centi/deci etc but rename them."
Because I guess the extreme version of what id be looking for is "you're immortal, so mortal stuff can't really touch you.. if it can't deal "mega damage"/(insert whatever name) then it's pointless, won't hurt an immortal, etc.
But with that, you're essentially making a new game... Ugh. I'm sure sure that if you're making a completely new game about being an immortal, youd probably be better served using a non-D&D system

The modifiers is definitely an interesting idea.

I wonder if anyone else has toyed with the concept for 5e.

There is a space based game for 5e that uses the concept of mega damage/hp like this, but it doesn't go beyond that.

Have you ever looked at Primal Order? It does basically what you describe.

To be clear, you never / rarely used the numerical modifier in my game. It was all behind the curtain. Things where just labelled mega or giga, etc. As long as you opponent was in the same tier, you just used your rolled damage. So:

If a monster did 65 (10d10 + 10) mega damage to a Lesser god (also mega tier), the deity took 65 damage. However, a demigod would take 650 damage from the same attack and an intermediate god would take only 7 damage.

"...essentially making a new game..." is basically what my Immortals game was becoming.

 

[dave2008]

PS: UK is updating / remaking his Immortals Handbook for 5e. It is coming out this year. From discussions with him I know he plans to get the numbers small (I think he is capping ability scores at 30), but still provide epic power (like spells that recreate the big bang epic). Not sure how is going to do it (or if he is still holding the line on number increases), but it should be interesting