D&D 5E [5e] Swashbuckler/Fighter makeshift tank

Eladain

First Post
Hello, all. Recent reader/forum lurker and first time poster. I've recently run into a bit of a road bump in the campaign I'm playing in and was hoping for a little help making the best out of a less than ideal situation. I'm currently running a Rogue(swashbuckler) 4/Fighter 2, although after Sunday we'll be lvl 7. The party consists of another rogue(assassin), Cleric(Tempest), Fighter(Battlemaster), and Warlock who I'm not 100% on her pact. However, the Fighter/tank has had to drop out of the campaign due to rl obligations and it's leaving our squishies a bit vulnerable. I had been using a rapier/hand x-bow with the crossbow expert feat as a sort of duelist type character. It seems like it might be time to drop the x-bow and pick up a shield though. After talking to the DM he's agreed to let me swap out my feat/fighting style to try and facilitate this sort of makeshift tank. The question is how to best accomplish this?

We used rolled stats and thanks to a lucky 18, and being an elf, I do have a 20 dex. Throw in studded leather and a +1 magic ring and AC wise I'm at 18 with the shield putting me at a solid 20. Con is a 14 so that's not terrible. As a result I think I'm ok going with the Dueling fighting style (maintains the theme of the character) over Defense or Protection. I don't see myself getting much use out of protection as all allies will be well beyond 5 feet from me, and while +1 AC is nice I think I'm ok at 20 for the time being.

I'm pretty sure Battlemaster is the obvious choice at Fighter 3 where maneuvers like Goading attack, Parry, and Menacing Attack and can make me a bit stickier and mitigate some damage.

The big dilemma is feats. I know sentinel and shield master are great when you start out on that tanky path from level 1, but would they be worth it in my situation? Or would something like defensive duelist become a little more valuable, while also being oddly thematic. There's also the option of something like Resilient(Wis) to shore up the other big saving throw.

I realize this will by no means be a fully optimized min/max tank build, but I would like to attempt to fill the role as well as possible.

Any thoughts and feedback would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Look at my most recent post on the Against the Grain builds thread for my Belmont Battlebuckler build, for an example of a similar build using a whip. You can easily modify it for use as an elf, if your DM won't allow you to change races as well.

What type of Elf are you? If High Elf, which cantrip did you choose? I highly suggest Booming Blade. It stacks with Sneak Attack.

As far as feats go, Martial Adept will give you an extra superiority die and two more maneuvers. Spell Sniper is a good way to pick up Green Flame Blade, and synergizes with Lunging Attack for non-whip builds.
 

Eladain

First Post
I'm actually a Dark Elf. The Dex/Cha worked really well for the swashbuckler and so far there's been a lot of subterranean excursions be it crypt/caverns or what not. So the sunlight hasn't been an issue... yet. The tempest cleric is also pretty reliable at providing cloud cover when necessary. I don't want to go so far as to change races because it'd feel a bit too much like essentially rolling a new character.

I'll probably end up around Fighter 11/Swash 9, assuming the campaign goes that long, so extra maneuvers will be gained from the higher BM levels than in your build. I do like the Booming Blade as an added incentive for creatures to not run away from or around me. Still may want to grab something like sentinel first, but of course the uncertainty is why I'm here. :)
 

bid

First Post
Uncanny dodge at 5 and panache at 9 are your best tanking features.
Swashbuckler is built for twf. You would do better replacing shield with mariner style and DW.
If you go shield, booming blade and move away with fancy footwork is great tanking.

The only useful rogue thing you're missing is reliable talent which works for shove. An automatic 20 with expertise does wonder.


Maneuvers:
- goading, definitely good. Menacing is the same thing, pick one.
- don't parry, uncanny dodge is better.
- precision attack, if you miss your BB.
- riposte, another chance at SA.
- trip, your melee pals will love it.

Feats:
- don't Defensive duelist, it's a variation on uncanny dodge.
- maybe Shield Master, only the shove is useful and you can't BB with it.
- Resilient (Wis) duplicates what you get at rogue 15, but you'll never get there.
- Sentinel also uses your reaction, but at least you might get some SA out of it.
I'd boost Con before thinking of lucky or other feats.


If the DM adjusts to your tanking style, you might as well go for some RP fun.
 

Eladain

First Post
I honestly had not even considered mariner style. I need to go take a closer look at it as I've only glanced over it before.

Reliable talent could still be acquired obviously. I was mainly thinking fighter 11/rogue 9 to get that 2nd extra attack from fighter levels. I need to weight the options between the class breakdown from fighter 11/rogue 9 through fighter 5/rogue 15(slippery mind).

Fair point on maneuvers. I wasn't necessarily suggested I'd be taking those specific ones, they were just the main ones I noticed with desired tank-like effects of cc and dmg mitigation. Of the two I probably prefer menacing as it seems strictly better unless of course vs fear immune creatures.

I am seeing a lot of reaction competition so that will definitely require some careful consideration.
 

bid

First Post
I need to weight the options between the class breakdown from fighter 11/rogue 9 through fighter 5/rogue 15(slippery mind).
I think they're roughly equal and it comes down to RP considerations.


Without thinking it through, I would mariner, rush to panache, then fighter 5. I'd grab sentinel, DW and Con16 in some random order. That means level 14 before having to choose which way to go. The only issue is fighter 6/8 giving feats 1-2 levels earlier.
 

Eladain

First Post
I agree, I don't think one breakdown is vastly superior to the others. I think I'm leaning 12 rogue/8 fighter for 7 ASI's though to fit stuff in.

Something like...

1-4 Are already Rogue(Swashbuckler) - DW Feat
5/6 Are already Fighter(Mariner)
7 - Rogue - Uncanny Dodge
8 - Fighter - Battlemaster
9-12 Rogue to get to Panache - Sentinel @11
13-14 Fighter to get to 2nd attack - +2 Con @13

As you said that'll give me a fair amount of time to plot out the remaining levels. Feat progression will probably go: DW, Sentinel, +2 Con, Magic Initiate, Resilient(Wis), and the last 2 would be some combination of Spell Sniper, Lucky, Alert, or things of that nature.

I really appreciate the feedback.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I agree, I don't think one breakdown is vastly superior to the others. I think I'm leaning 12 rogue/8 fighter for 7 ASI's though to fit stuff in.

Something like...

1-4 Are already Rogue(Swashbuckler) - DW Feat
5/6 Are already Fighter(Mariner)
7 - Rogue - Uncanny Dodge
8 - Fighter - Battlemaster
9-12 Rogue to get to Panache - Sentinel @11
13-14 Fighter to get to 2nd attack - +2 Con @13

As you said that'll give me a fair amount of time to plot out the remaining levels. Feat progression will probably go: DW, Sentinel, +2 Con, Magic Initiate, Resilient(Wis), and the last 2 would be some combination of Spell Sniper, Lucky, Alert, or things of that nature.

I really appreciate the feedback.

IMO. It is mechanically inferior to stop at level 4 rogue then get 2 levels of fighter and then 1 level of rogue compared with just going level 5 rogue and then 2 levels of fighter etc.
 

Eladain

First Post
It's entirely possible that it is, but if you read the OP then you'd know this character is already level 6, so that ship has sailed. Initially that decision was made because #1 I wanted to start as a rogue, and #2 I wanted to rush Crossbow Expert for his play style before the tank had to drop out. Normally I'd continue to fighter 3, but I think Uncanny Dodge will be more valuable than Battlemaster for that level. Hindsight is 20/20 though, if I end up rolling a rogue/fighter archer in the future I'm sure he'll progress a bit differently.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
It's entirely possible that it is, but if you read the OP then you'd know this character is already level 6, so that ship has sailed. Initially that decision was made because #1 I wanted to start as a rogue, and #2 I wanted to rush Crossbow Expert for his play style before the tank had to drop out. Normally I'd continue to fighter 3, but I think Uncanny Dodge will be more valuable than Battlemaster for that level. Hindsight is 20/20 though, if I end up rolling a rogue/fighter archer in the future I'm sure he'll progress a bit differently.

I see. If you are dex based then battle master and parry adds a ton of tankiness if you save your superiority dice for the damage reduction ability.

Assuming 2 short rests and 18 dex then:
8.5 average damage stopped per parry.
8.5*4*3 = 102 average damage mitigation.
 

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