• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

8 minutes/turn - is that very slow? slow? average?

Ferghis

First Post
After a while, it was even more shorthand, such as "se" or "D Wt." Ongoing damage would just say "5 fire."
We denote save ends with (s) and otherwise use the initiative count that effects end on in parenthesis. If the save has a -2 penalty, it's (s-2). Effects that end at the beginning of someone's turn merely end at the end of the prior initiative count. Effects that only last "once" or until the end of the encounter are memorable enough that we don't need to note their duration.

For really common effects such as curses, quarries and marks, we just use soda cap rings on the minis. Different colors differentiate the effects. And prone is a tipped over mini, so that doesn't need tracking on the board either.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Yeah, I'm with you on that. :)

When you say you "keep the dial set to 10 on intensity, so the players WANT to move fast", can you elaborate? For example, I ran a very dangerous, complex, "intense" boss fight that took about 6 hours all told, with several players were taking a long time despite the dramatic tension. Are you doing something I'm not?

No, and I agree that when you get to really complex fights they can still take a long time, and then there's no way to sustain that level of energy. These days I tend to break them up, so I might have the equivalent be a few shorter encounters, some chase/escape/problem solving sequence (with pressure), and then another shorter final encounter, say perhaps the 'final stage' of the boss that might have been fought earlier. That can create a more interesting and dynamic pacing. Some of it is atmospherics too. I always inject some level of time pressure or some goal that is just within reach, intense rivalries, that sort of thing. Then it falls down to dramatic description, maybe some props, etc. Just something so that the players are hooked, they want to be carried along and see what comes next, much like an adventure movie. Nobody would willingly stop the VCR at the point where Indie is about to jump on the truck and try to recover the Ark to take a break. Likewise if the the whole mine is about to collapse most players can be convinced to hurry up and do their turn and see what happens next.

I do try to go over player's sheets with them now and then as well, give them some tips, encourage them to come up with their next round's moves ahead of time, etc. I also do the monster turns very fast. Sometimes I miss an opportunity or forget about some capability some monster has, but oh well. I can generally run 8 monsters at about the same speed as a player can run one PC, so my turns are 20% of the whole (another reason to for instance break up a multi-stage boss monster into a couple encounters, keep each one simple, this is also a good argument for staged bosses in general as each stage is separate and simpler).

What I find is that when my 'velocity' is high, the action is highly intense, the monster's are rolling out their turns bang bang bang, then the players often will get into that flow too. The thorn in that is always that one player, but IMHO generally if you work out a shtick with that guy's character, so you get together and crib a little "OK, do this early on, then do this a lot, and if things get really hot, then unleash THIS" they will at least usually get somewhat faster. Nothing is perfect, but honestly the same player that is the slowest in my 4e games, was just as slow playing a rogue in 2e, and is equally slow in my sister's 3.5 game. Its not as critical in 2e, but still, nothing will make that player FAST.
 

Blackbrrd

First Post
Regarding the tracking of situational modifiers, the player should probably create a little cheat-sheet. The 4e character sheet is just not useful when it comes to actual combat. It's much to verbose and impossible to use as a quick reference.

Turn this:
Compat Superiority (+4 opportunity attacks)
Bloodsworn (+2 attack after second wind)
Rapid Assault (+2 damage on first attack of an encounter)
Light Blade Expertise (+2 damage from combat advantage)
Steel Action Defense (+4 AC/Ref after action point)
Action Surge (+3 attack with action point)
Hero's Hide Tembo Armor (+2 defenses with action point)
Battle Fury Stance (gain +4 damage but -2 attack)

Into this:
+2 damage on first attack of an encounter
+4 opportunity attacks
+2 damage from combat advantage

Second wind
+2 defenses
+2 attack

Action point
+4 AC/Ref
+3 attack
+2 defenses

Battle Fury Stance
+4 damage -2 attack

I played a 3.5 Cleric up to level 18 and I used another "trick" as well. When it wasn't my turn, I re-calculated my character on a piece of paper to keep track of the ever changing buffs I had running. So instead of having a "base" attack/dmg/defense and a crapload of modifiers, I noted the totals. When it was my turn I could just add the out-of-turn-calculated numbers to my roll.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
[MENTION=82106]AbdulAlhazred[/MENTION] Yeah, its a mystery to me, because there is lots of interest and enjoyment in the game happening alongside some agonizingly slow turns. I don't think my group will ever be fast, but I'd settle for 2-3 minute turns.

[MENTION=63962]Blackbrrd[/MENTION] Yes, I've repeatedly tried to get folks to do PC one-page cheat sheets. One does a great job of it & is helping my effort to convince others. So far the players who need it most don't do it.
 

Hussar

Legend
[MENTION=82106]AbdulAlhazred[/MENTION] Yeah, its a mystery to me, because there is lots of interest and enjoyment in the game happening alongside some agonizingly slow turns. I don't think my group will ever be fast, but I'd settle for 2-3 minute turns.

[MENTION=63962]Blackbrrd[/MENTION] Yes, I've repeatedly tried to get folks to do PC one-page cheat sheets. One does a great job of it & is helping my effort to convince others. So far the players who need it most don't do it.

Yeah, unfortunately, that always seems to be the case.
 

Yeah, unfortunately, that always seems to be the case.

I've definitely found over the years that the players who need assistance and playing aids the most are the ones that are unlikely to adopt them. My advice is get everyone ELSE doing it first, THEN bring the problem player(s) along. If you say to them effectively some version of "You're slow, you need this playing aid" you've already lost. Eh, its really just a special case of general people management. Carrots, praise, and internal self-motivation work FAR better than anything else, and D&D being a pastime are really your only option.
 

Hussar

Legend
You sure that a cattle prod wouldn't be more effective? Perhaps wiring up his chair before the game. "Roll the damn dice NOW!!!!" :p :D
 



Quickleaf

Legend
How in the world is an Elementalist's turn slow? :uhoh:

They're literally a cannon with hit points.

-O
Three reasons:
1. The player struggles with maximizing her action economy, it is partially her style and partially a build issue.
2. The particular build has lots of conditional modifiers and triggered attacks.
3. The player has a baby.

Really, I can do this kind of analysis with the other slow players too...

The vampire-cavalier is a conditional modifier nightmare build, and the player shares the baby.

The barbarian player is not a native English speaker, and often is unsure of the best action to take.

The paladin player is new to D&D and often needs help figuring his powers or the rules.

The wizard player has some complex multi-target controller powers, plus he tries outside the box ideas which can sometimes take time to figure out.


...but ultimately it's up to what the players see as the problem and what they are willing to do about it.
 
Last edited:

Remove ads

Top