A kingdon without magic can survive in a war against a magical one?
ergeheilalt
First Post
Magic or Not To Magic.
As I see it Elves are very quiet and composed (generally not considering Drow & Wild Elves). I find it hard that Humans would be the ones defending. I mean an Elf and a Forest...AND magic...what else do you want.
Humans without magic are very strong. 200 commoners have two feats at first level. It could be that they are all trained in using light armor and shortswords (Pitchforks, sickles, Scythes, whatever you prefer). Human numbers grow like lice on an orc. There is virtually no end to their ability to "make babies". Humans also are more versatile than elves; therefore, the idea that they use more tech -- alchemy if you really want to maintain Middle Age feel -- is not a bad idea.
Elves on the other hand are slow reproducing, finite number of spell weilding folk. Flying mages with fireballs are conceivable, but what happens when you cast your flight, and 3 (more likely 2) fireballs. Now you've got a floating elf in the line of sight for a mile. Elves having their forest burned down in highly unlikely. Elves have magic to put out flames...not to mention the treants, pixies, dryads and other forest sentient who live in the forest as well.
Overall, I think a Cold War atmosphere would fall over the campaign. General dislike by either side. Although...there are still gnomes, dwarves, and (ack! dare I say it) halflings to consider. Gnomes aiding the techie Humans would be a scary sight to see. And if the dwarves were on the Human's side, now you've got enemies with spell resistance and built in blacksmiths. It would get to be a grim reality for the elves. But who is to say it might not be the other way around.
This is not even including divine magic, which they might not use; after all, if a god feels like intervening who is gonna stop him.
As I see it Elves are very quiet and composed (generally not considering Drow & Wild Elves). I find it hard that Humans would be the ones defending. I mean an Elf and a Forest...AND magic...what else do you want.
Humans without magic are very strong. 200 commoners have two feats at first level. It could be that they are all trained in using light armor and shortswords (Pitchforks, sickles, Scythes, whatever you prefer). Human numbers grow like lice on an orc. There is virtually no end to their ability to "make babies". Humans also are more versatile than elves; therefore, the idea that they use more tech -- alchemy if you really want to maintain Middle Age feel -- is not a bad idea.
Elves on the other hand are slow reproducing, finite number of spell weilding folk. Flying mages with fireballs are conceivable, but what happens when you cast your flight, and 3 (more likely 2) fireballs. Now you've got a floating elf in the line of sight for a mile. Elves having their forest burned down in highly unlikely. Elves have magic to put out flames...not to mention the treants, pixies, dryads and other forest sentient who live in the forest as well.
Overall, I think a Cold War atmosphere would fall over the campaign. General dislike by either side. Although...there are still gnomes, dwarves, and (ack! dare I say it) halflings to consider. Gnomes aiding the techie Humans would be a scary sight to see. And if the dwarves were on the Human's side, now you've got enemies with spell resistance and built in blacksmiths. It would get to be a grim reality for the elves. But who is to say it might not be the other way around.
This is not even including divine magic, which they might not use; after all, if a god feels like intervening who is gonna stop him.
KnowTheToe
First Post
LostSoul said:
Silly silly magic loving, elf admiring fool. The mage will eventually have to land and we humans breed like
roaches and die with reckless abandonment. We would eventually hunt him down and kill him. The cost of elves would be too great. If you above example were true, then every evil mage ever brought forth by fantasy writers would rule their worlds. Do you really think Frodo was more powerful and a mighter wielder of magic than his foes? No, he found other means to bring them to their knees. Ingenuity would rule the day and the way. DEATH TO ELVES!I just recently ran a similar scenario, in which a Steam Powered state of religous zealots (no divine magic though) with access to alchemical anti-magic and firearms invaded a magic heavy, but much smaller nation. The PCs, all about 12th level representing various classes, most with spell casting abilities, were the front line of defense for the small nation. the zealots never stood a chance.
Between divination and teleport, the magical PCs were able to be everywhere at once. I set up a timeline in which the zealots were performing a three pronged attack: a zepplin to bomb their capital, a n armada to rain death upon their port city, and an army to crush them. The PCs were to be involved in the first two, which would allow me to judeg how the "big battle" might go.
Even with hordes of 3rd to 5th level wariors with guns, led by true fighters, the enemy was sorely overmatched. High level, magic using PCs are sick. And it is not all in high level spells. It is amazing how quickly Shape Wood can sink a ship. The PCs destroyed the zepplin before it got close, sunk nearly every ship in the armada (and those they did not sink they caught up in maelstorms -- using the cleric spell Control Water) and killed troops by the dozen.
I came away from it all realizing that D&D, at higher leels, does indeed emulate Heroic fiction such as the Illiad and the Odessey.
Granted, attacking a zepplin or a number of ships on the open seas is a more isolated situation that running onto a battlefield against hundreds or thouands of soldiers. So in a land war, the technologically advanced humans might have a higher degree of success.
Next time, the zealots will have God on their side and may actually win a fight...
Between divination and teleport, the magical PCs were able to be everywhere at once. I set up a timeline in which the zealots were performing a three pronged attack: a zepplin to bomb their capital, a n armada to rain death upon their port city, and an army to crush them. The PCs were to be involved in the first two, which would allow me to judeg how the "big battle" might go.
Even with hordes of 3rd to 5th level wariors with guns, led by true fighters, the enemy was sorely overmatched. High level, magic using PCs are sick. And it is not all in high level spells. It is amazing how quickly Shape Wood can sink a ship. The PCs destroyed the zepplin before it got close, sunk nearly every ship in the armada (and those they did not sink they caught up in maelstorms -- using the cleric spell Control Water) and killed troops by the dozen.
I came away from it all realizing that D&D, at higher leels, does indeed emulate Heroic fiction such as the Illiad and the Odessey.
Granted, attacking a zepplin or a number of ships on the open seas is a more isolated situation that running onto a battlefield against hundreds or thouands of soldiers. So in a land war, the technologically advanced humans might have a higher degree of success.
Next time, the zealots will have God on their side and may actually win a fight...
Dwarves and Divine powers
That's a good solution to equalize the situation. The humans will make an aliance with the dwarves, witch can provide some special armors and weapons with an anti-magical material. The priests of both of them can make a pray for the gods to protect the city against crazy flying invisible mages fire ballers and things like that.
But if the really battle begins it wont be easy, otherwise, the real point of the campaing, and the players mission, is to find a way to avoid the war.
That's a good solution to equalize the situation. The humans will make an aliance with the dwarves, witch can provide some special armors and weapons with an anti-magical material. The priests of both of them can make a pray for the gods to protect the city against crazy flying invisible mages fire ballers
and things like that.But if the really battle begins it wont be easy, otherwise, the real point of the campaing, and the players mission, is to find a way to avoid the war.
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