A problem with D&D that's not really a problem (minor rant)

[Storminator]

I rarely plan my PCs. There's so little to plan! A few dozen skill points, a handful of stat bumps, half a dozen feats... I'd rather wing it.

I do have a monk that I'm pointing in a direction, but that fits very tightly with his philosophy and the way I wrote his back story, so I'm fairly pleased with the results. Another player in that group worships the elven chaos god, so she changes classes all the time (I think she's up to 4, with another on the way). Lack of planning is one of her character traits.

I DM for a bunch of teens. They have some vague plans, but they aren't real sharp about implementing them. Those PCs are turning out pretty interesting, with campaign event large and small dictating many of their choices

I think people get a distorted view from coming to ENWorld. There's a lot of brainpower devoted to D&D here, so naturally you see hyperPCs.

PS

 

[Noldor Elf]

I think the problem is more with availability of choises. A non-fighter character will get 5 feats during first 12 levels, 6 if he's human. When PrC can require 2 or 3 feats and allmost always require at least one there is not very much room for character to grow into some role (presented by PrC) without planning ahead. At least for me 4 levels is LONG time to wait for my character to be able to pick some class that would fit him, while I could take it earlier if I had planned it ahead of time.

 

[MadScientist]

I suppose this is true and I fixed it with the group that I run, rather heavy handed most would say, but I do it by limiting the Prestige Classes available.

I don't think this is heavy handed at all! In fact every DM should think about what Prestige Classes they want and don't want in their campaigns. They should fit the flavor of the campaign and be a balanced class as well. The fact is not PrC's fit with all campaigns (Some campaigns just don't have room for Ninja's for example) and we all know there are lots of PrC's out their that are over powered or poorly designed. In the campaigns my group has played in it would be considered presumptuous to just assume any PrC was available to you. (Non-core material is allways subject to DM approval as well.)

As for the original posters question I think it's a minor problem but only because making a poor decision early in character development can really hurt if you decide to take your character in a different direction. I've found this is especially a problem for inexperienced players. One problem is a lot of the "gateway" feats that are part of powerful feat chains tend to be pretty weak on their own. So if you think you want your character to be a spring attack fighter and take dodge and mobility as feats and then your character changes direction.... those two feats begin to feel like pretty bad choices.

 

[Darrin Drader]

How is planning out your career a bad thing? People do it all the time when they go to college, or take one career path instead of another so that they can acheive their desired ends. I don't see anything wrong or unnatural about this at all. People in the real world do this, so why wouldn't fantasy characters think ahead as well?

 

[Umbran]

Does anybody else think that in order to have a really good character you have to really plan ahead, sometimes to the point of having your first five to eight levels planned out?

Well, that would depend on what you consider a "good character". If by "good" you mean "with maximum combat effecitiveness", then perhaps. If you mean "with adequate combat effectiveness", I'd have to disagree. Similarly, if by "good" you mean "fun to roleplay", then I'd have to really disagree.

Be that as it may, why does this seem odd. Do you think that real people can go through major life-tasks and advancement without a plan? Don't doctors and other highly educated folk have a plan? Do corporate executives get where they are without a plan? Yes, plans should be flexible, but if you don't have one at all, you're not going to be terribly successful at anything, much less at something that carries a great deal of risk to life and limb - like adventuring. In that sense, having a plan seems outright reasonable.

 

[The Sigil]

Not as much of a problem as you might think...

I came up with a house rule to help mitigate this... of course, it's probably also because I don't let characters know what prestige classes are available - and what their requirements are - until the characters are invited to join the PrC (IOW, it's impossible for my players to "plan ahead").

My house rule:

You may take level 1 in a PrC if you meet all requirements except for Skill Ranks requirements. If you choose to do so, you are subject to the following restrictions: (a) all skill points earned from that point forward MUST be spent towards qualifying for the class and (b) you cannot take level 2 until you have satisfied all of the "normal" prerequisites for the class.

It has worked great for me.

--The Sigil

 

[Isida Kep'Tukari]

How and if I plan out my character revolves around several factors.

1. The general "type" of our campaign. If the DM says there's going to be some dungeon-crawling and some mystery solving, I'd better have a character that's both combat effective and with some social and knowledge skills. If it's taking place primarily in a city, I probably should leave my druid character sheet at the door. If we're playing a sea campaign, I better talk to the DM about changing out my paladin's mount for a different ability.

2. The other players. I have to plan around the other player's weaknesses. If there's no one in the party that has a prayer of finding or disarming traps, maybe my fighter should multiclass into rogue after a level or two.

3. Deciding to take (or not) a PrC. I love PrCs. I love reading them, making them, and playing them. However, just because I'm a PrC junkie doesn't mean I should just plan out my character and take whatever PrC I want. If we've been dungeon-crawling for five levels, I probably should put my plans to become a King of the Wild on hold.

In our current campaign, our druid has been using her wildshape abilities primarily for combat. Her spells have been of less use. Logical PrC choice for her? Shifter. My character, a cleric of Auril (cold goddess in Forgotten Realms), has been using both spells and melee combat abilities, but not turning or ranged weapons. I'm taking a homebrew PrC I found that's based on the old 2e speciality priest for Auril. It emphasizes, of course, melee combat and spellcasting.

All of these things allow, for me, for enough planning to prevent your character from dying prematurely, but also enough evolution so that they make sense.

And that's my two copper pieces.

 

[ced1106]

I am just wondering if anybody else sees this happening in some of their games.

Happens enough in real life.

If anyone can find a link to the infamous "Dear Admissions Committee: Which kindergarden should my child enroll in to attend your university" letter, I'd appreciate it. (;

"So what do you want to be when you grow up?"


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

 

[s/LaSH]

Strangely, not in my campaign. One PC started off as a fighter intending to be a mage, but a mage later joined the party and he became something else. Only two of four PCs multiclassed at all, none of them have PrCs, and they're 10th level.

This could be due to the fact that I didn't even have the DMG until level 9, but I think the players see maximum utility in sticking to one class and getting very, very good at it. Although I haven't asked them. I guess I should.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

How is planning out your career a bad thing? People do it all the time when they go to college, or take one career path instead of another so that they can acheive their desired ends. I don't see anything wrong or unnatural about this at all. People in the real world do this, so why wouldn't fantasy characters think ahead as well?

There is a student worker I know who wants to become a doctor- I need to have a sharp talk with her. Instead of studying hard and forcing herself to go to med school, she should just sit back and let her career develop naturally. I am sure she will become a doctor if it works out that way.

I thought the rant on 3.5 was silly- this just too first place. How ridiculous.

SD