A quick look at Intimidate: the D&D wunderskill

[Henry]

I don't get the "It's useless" part, even if a DM doesn't let you mind-control the creature. He acts as if you are a friend - (A) he doesn't try to kill you, (B) he listens to what you have to say, (C) he treats you with respect, even if it is of a limited duration. Even if you have to role-play an interaction with the creature to get something out of him, how is such a skill useless. Useless would be, "the creature growls and attacks" even after the DM lets you make the roll. I myself don't find the other extreme, a player who tries to use the skill all the time as a means to grandstand the other players by mind-controlling all the opposition, as palatable, myself.

I do agree though, that it's a good idea to make sure you and the DM are on the same page where social skills are concerned, because some DM's do make them useless points, where they really shouldn't. I myself tie diplomacy for instance into sales prices, barter, etc. None of my players have tried to really bulk up on intimidate before, but as noted it's a bad idea to try and use it everywhere.

 

[buzz]

Batman looming over the punk and getting him to talk without throwing a punch? That's Diplomacy.

Robin Hood standing 60' away from the Sherrif of Nottingham with all the Merry Men at his back, leveling their bows at the Sherrif? That's Diplomacy.

The evil archmage who's just bracketed your party with 4 fireballs and a disjunction, from over 600' away, all in a single round? That's Diplomacy.

If you're threatening someone, it's Intimidate. In all of these examples, you're not genuinely changing the target's disposition; doing that is what Diplomacy is for. On the contrary, you're forcing them to act like they have a better disposition towards you as long as they are threatened; that's what Intimidate does.

 

[iwatt]

How about a barbarian with 1 lvl rogue? bbn has intimidate as a class skill, and with that one rogue level you should easily get the 5 ranks required for synergy. Plus, intimidate just fits barbarians.

For extra goodness take Intimidating Rage. As a free action you can use the Demoralize opponent option, and it lasts for the erst of your rage IIRC. The barabrian in my agme makes very good use of it (shaken condition is not a minor hindrance).

 

[buzz]

I don't get the "It's useless" part, even if a DM doesn't let you mind-control the creature. He acts as if you are a friend - (A) he doesn't try to kill you, (B) he listens to what you have to say, (C) he treats you with respect, even if it is of a limited duration. Even if you have to role-play an interaction with the creature to get something out of him, how is such a skill useless. Useless would be, "the creature growls and attacks" even after the DM lets you make the roll.

I'll conceed this. My main point was simply that it's not anywhere as useful as the OP suggested.

However, whether "the creature growls and attacks" is very DM-dependent if we're tlaking about real-world play. With some DMs, it's going to happen regardless, and with others, such as greywulf, Intimidate is practically mind control. Hence, my basic assertion that it's effectively useless. Resources are better spent on abilities that let you defeat opponents and survive encounters.

 

[iwatt]

If the 1 minute requirement bothers you, just add the same rule that Diplomacy uses - make a Rushed check as a full-round action for a -10 penalty.

That seems perfectly fine to me. To use your Batman analogy, sure he can intimidate the low-level punk with a couple of punhces and a menacing loom, but generally speaking, against more effective opponents he at least has to take a minute or two to dangle them off a tower block before they crack.

This is pretty good. I was going to reccomend the Fast compeltion Challenge from Iron Heroes, which when applying -10 to Intimidate would cut the time to 5 rounds. But looking at the rushed Diplomacy skill challenge makes more sense.

 

[WayneLigon]

I'm all for adding situational modifiers and other considerations into it; I preferred the 3.0 version, myself, but it always came down to the fact that sometimes, a person simply cannot be intimidated. It depends on who scares him worse: you, or the cult he works for. Some people have no fear, or such a sense of self, that they cannot be intimidated. The mad usually can't be intimidated all that well, but it depends on their madness. On the flip side, some people intimidate really, really easily.

 

[buzz]

For extra goodness take Intimidating Rage. As a free action you can use the Demoralize opponent option, and it lasts for the erst of your rage IIRC. The barabrian in my agme makes very good use of it (shaken condition is not a minor hindrance).

Spiff! Has this been consistently useful as you've gone up in levels, or is it more for the mooks?

I've been playing a barb from 1st to (now) 15th, and have gotten a lot more mileage out of having a badass Jump.

 

[buzz]

This is pretty good. I was going to reccomend the Fast compeltion Challenge from Iron Heroes, which when applying -10 to Intimidate would cut the time to 5 rounds. But looking at the rushed Diplomacy skill challenge makes more sense.

Anyone looking to make social skills more useful needs to check out Iron Heroes. The skill chapter was my favorite section of the book.

 

[LostSoul]

I don't get the "It's useless" part, even if a DM doesn't let you mind-control the creature. He acts as if you are a friend - (A) he doesn't try to kill you, (B) he listens to what you have to say, (C) he treats you with respect, even if it is of a limited duration. Even if you have to role-play an interaction with the creature to get something out of him, how is such a skill useless. Useless would be, "the creature growls and attacks" even after the DM lets you make the roll. I myself don't find the other extreme, a player who tries to use the skill all the time as a means to grandstand the other players by mind-controlling all the opposition, as palatable, myself.

It's because it's all up to the DM. You can say to the evil dragon, "Get out of here or I'll kill you," and make a successful Intimidate check. What the dragon actually does depends on the DM, not the successful check.

I think it's easier to have the player say what he wants to try up front and the DM can either agree to have this action succeed on a successful check, or say, "No, that's lame. Try something else."

 

[Crothian]

It's because it's all up to the DM. You can say to the evil dragon, "Get out of here or I'll kill you," and make a successful Intimidate check. What the dragon actually does depends on the DM, not the successful check.

The the DM's doing it wrong if it's all up to him and he's ignoring the skill check. But he is allowed to have situational modifiers so the player's good roll might still not be good enough.