A Simple House Rule for that Old School Feel

[airwalkrr]

I recently sat down and did some calculations comparing saving throw DCs with average saving throws for various characters and came to a shocking realization. Even without magic items and spells, saving throws are MUCH easier to make in 3e than they were in 1e. Now that gave me pause. I think saving throws should be harder to pass at low levels and easier to pass at high levels. Yet I cringe at the thought of using tables. I also realized that at high levels, PCs often succeed on saving throws as long as they don't roll a 1. So part of the equation is already there. So I figured, why not make the base for all saving throws 15 instead of 10? Basically add 5 to the DC of every saving throw in the game. I think it would make things a bit more interesting.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Now no one is going to make their bad saves.
How about:

Give everyone base saves = character level. Add +5 to all save DCs.

And/or make 1d20 +5 + (caster level) = DC for spells, 1d20 + 5 + (1/2 HD) = DC for other abilities.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

I recently sat down and did some calculations comparing saving throw DCs with average saving throws for various characters and came to a shocking realization. Even without magic items and spells, saving throws are MUCH easier to make in 3e than they were in 1e. Now that gave me pause. I think saving throws should be harder to pass at low levels and easier to pass at high levels. Yet I cringe at the thought of using tables. I also realized that at high levels, PCs often succeed on saving throws as long as they don't roll a 1. So part of the equation is already there. So I figured, why not make the base for all saving throws 15 instead of 10? Basically add 5 to the DC of every saving throw in the game. I think it would make things a bit more interesting.

Now nobody will ever make a save at low levels without a nat 20. Maybe that's what you want, but it actually doesn't solve the high level problem. You've only delayed the point at which nobody fails a save on anything but a nat 1. If you want to do more than just delay the problem, you need to change the DC progression, not just its base. So instead of adding 5 to the base, make a magic item that boosts save DCs (+1 to +5) or grant a DC bonus based on level (+1 per 4 levels).

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I think your assessment is a little off. A 20th level character with +5 cloak of resistance will only have +11 plus ability modifier with his poor saves (probably total of +12-14 if its reflex or will or a total of +14 to +16 if fort).

A 20th level wizard casting a ninth level spell can will have a DC of around 29 on the low end (10 base plus 9 level + 10 ability modifier).

So with your poor save you're failing any where from 80 to 60 percent of the time.
With your good save maybe you'll only fail 30 percent of the time or less.

Thats not very good odds, add 5 to all DCs and casters will be too strong and any save involving a characters poor saves will be nearly impossible or impossible.

 

[eschwenke]

How about adding a modifier to DCs that scales with Class level/Caster Level/Character Level/etc.? For example, say that spell DCs are equal to 10 + Spell Level + Ability Modifier + 1/3 Caster Level rounded down. So, a 1st level Wizard with 15 Int casting a 1st level spell has a save DC of 13. At 20th level, with a 20 Int, casting the same spell has a DC of 22. And cast a 9th level spell has a DC of 30. Of course, this would probably just have the opposite effect of what you want, so don't mind me.

 

[Meeki]

Changing the DC's like this are going ot make spell casters even more powerful IMO.

I would just change the DC's on the DM side so NPC's have higher DC's but not PC's. I think saves for PC spells and abilities are fine. Be careful! you don't want your PC's throwing around un-savable abilities also!