A true20 like Damage Save System for 3.x

[TableSage]

Sadrik’s Simplified Damage Save System

I really like what you have so far!
I have a few questions with regards to how non-leathal and lethal damage work together:
When a character is brought to 0 or fewer Wound Points and thus have 0 "Stun Points" they are Disabled but they are also Unconcious?

Might I also suggest a rewording of taking Wound Points to (stolen blatently from Ars Magica wording): for every 5, or fraction thereof, a character fails the Toughness save by the character takes 1 Wound Point. Same effect just possibly easier to wrap one's brain around?

Oh yeah, does this system use the Parry (Str based) defense or just Dodge?

Thanks!

 

[Sadrik]

I just thought of a question. How does Power Attack work? Will you change it at all or leave it the same?

With the goal of this is not to alter anything and just port this system into d&d core.

But if asked how I would do it in my game... I think I will keep it the same but limit it to 5 like combat expertise...

I really like what you have so far!
I have a few questions with regards to how non-leathal and lethal damage work together:
When a character is brought to 0 or fewer Wound Points and thus have 0 "Stun Points" they are Disabled but they are also Unconcious?

Yes, but characters recover 1 "stun" every minute so he will eventually be awake and disabled still.

Might I also suggest a rewording of taking Wound Points to (stolen blatently from Ars Magica wording): for every 5, or fraction thereof, a character fails the Toughness save by the character takes 1 Wound Point. Same effect just possibly easier to wrap one's brain around?

Thats good.
How about this:

Failed roll by     Wounds/Stun taken
1-4                 1
5-9                 2
10-14              3
15-19              4
20-24              5
25-29              6
etc.

Which brings me to --> Removing the fail by 15 and you go down unconscious and/or disabled. With having the wounds in place it doesn't seem necessary. It is basically the massive damage rule. I think it should be tied to your total wounds. Something like if you take 1/2 your total (not current) maximum wounds in one hit you become unconscious and/or disabled. Hows that? Then you wont have a 20th level barbarian drop when he takes 4 of his 28 wounds. Under this rule he would have to take 14 wounds all in 1 hit (which would be like failing a DR save by ~65 or so).

Oh yeah, does this system use the Parry (Str based) defense or just Dodge?

No strength parry. Again this is meant to port directly into D&D standard.

As far as the strength parry rule goes though. I dont like it. It is there to shore up the power of dex and make melee guys not have to focus on dex too to be good in melee. I think strength is good enough without it.

 

[ValhallaGH]

In D&D, Str is good enough without parry. In True20, this is less so as all attacks default off of Dex.

I agree with your decision on that one, Sadrik.

It looks good. If I was still playing D&D I'd be lifting this and your skill system for my games.

 

[Sadrik]

It looks good. If I was still playing D&D I'd be lifting this and your skill system for my games.

Thanks.

I added the various rules we have discussed in the thread and incorporated them into the first post.
1. I edited the format in the first post to a much smoother and more concise format. hopefully
2. I took out the fail by 15 DR check.
3. I changed non-lethal damage to work like lethal damage. Unconscious is now equivalent to dying. Disabled is equivalent to stunned.
4. Incorporated the +2 into the size mod chart.

Question: Is this balanced?

Creatures without a con score: ignore non-lethal damage, have a DR bonus equal to ½ their hit dice.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Not especially, but it makes undead and constructs less weak. That's almost certainly a good thing.

 

[Sadrik]

How should toughness and improved toughness feat work?

I think improved toughness feat should be deleted and toughness could be left alone.

It would be very powerful under these rules.

Are there any other hp related feats that would need changing?

 

[TableSage]

I really do like these ideas!
I like the changes (including the new look too).

As a side note I never liked the whole "Strength for Defense" schtick anyways (if going that route I like the Block mechanic from M&M).

Another round of questions, if you don't mind?

Is the only way to go straight to Dying/Unconscious from taking a strenuous action while being Disabled? Or can a character also be brought low by going into "negative" boxes of health?
EDIT: I just saw that Disabled is, in fact, the worst condition a character can take as a result of an attack. But that still leads me to another question: If a character takes additional damage while Disabled does the character fall to Dying?

Would the Toughness feat add to boxes of health or a bonus to the Toughness save?

Thanks.

 

[ValhallaGH]

How should toughness and improved toughness feat work?

Either bonus wounds/stun or increased DR Save. Bonus wound/stun seems the most logical to me but also the most difficult to balance.

I think improved toughness feat should be deleted and toughness could be left alone.

It would be very powerful under these rules.

I'm with you on the Improved Toughness. That exists to make up for how sucktastic Toughness is.

If Toughness gave +1 wounds then it would be pretty great; that's like going up one hit die type. If it gave +3 wounds then it would be amazing; that's like going up three hit die types.

If it gave +1 DR Save then it would be like getting another +1 on your armor, which would be solid without being so good that everyone must have it. You could increase that further (per feat) but going past +2 is probably too good, especially with being able to take it multiple times.

"My Fighter took Toughness six times. It's like he's got an extra suit of banded mail under his clothes."
versus
"My Fither took Toughness six times. It's like he's an Ancient Dragon in +5 full plate."

 

[Sadrik]

Is the only way to go straight to Dying/Unconscious from taking a strenuous action while being Disabled? Or can a character also be brought low by going into "negative" boxes of health?
EDIT: I just saw that Disabled is, in fact, the worst condition a character can take as a result of an attack. But that still leads me to another question: If a character takes additional damage while Disabled does the character fall to Dying?

Very good question. To kill someone while they are disabled you have to coup de grace them. Which I suppose would have to be expanded to include helpless and disabled creatures.

Disabled condition is really bad. But it is not bad enough that you cannot run from battle and try and fight again another day. They can only take move actions so no standard or full round actions. If they do take one of those actions they risk taking the dying condition and that is super bad.

 

[Sadrik]

Either bonus wounds/stun or increased DR Save. Bonus wound/stun seems the most logical to me but also the most difficult to balance.

I'm with you on the Improved Toughness. That exists to make up for how sucktastic Toughness is.

If Toughness gave +1 wounds then it would be pretty great; that's like going up one hit die type. If it gave +3 wounds then it would be amazing; that's like going up three hit die types.

If it gave +1 DR Save then it would be like getting another +1 on your armor, which would be solid without being so good that everyone must have it. You could increase that further (per feat) but going past +2 is probably too good, especially with being able to take it multiple times.

"My Fighter took Toughness six times. It's like he's got an extra suit of banded mail under his clothes."
versus
"My Fither took Toughness six times. It's like he's an Ancient Dragon in +5 full plate."

I was thinking about this: should a zombie (in my mind the perennial toughness feat monster) be harder to damage (bonus to DR) or be able to take more damage before dropping. I think they should take more damage. So, toughness should give +1 wounds/stun and improved toughness should give +1 more wounds/stun.

I am a little torn about that though. Should it provide more than +1 wound/stun? A character is going to have 1/2 hit die + BCB +2 normally. Is +1 pretty crappy for a feat? Yeah, I think it is. I'll leave it at +3 at least then it would be worth blowing a feat on.

Improved toughness should be deleted at this point because toughness is already pretty good.

Diehard feat allows you to be conscious at negative 1-9 hp. Should this make them immune to being unconscious somehow? I'll have to think about it.

I am thinking about adding these conditions:
Dead: When a creature fails a dying check or their wound total is at negative 1/2 their maximum wounds.
Coma: When a creature's stun is at negative 1/2 their maximum stun.