About the War Cleric......

[Rossbert]

My quick and dirty read leads me to believe the war cleric changes roles as experience is gained.

At low levels it works as a great frontline warrior. Nice defense, good weapons, the ability to basically guarantee a hit when you really need it, strong spell support. That is quite a package for a strong soldier.

As higher levels hit, you turn from a soldier to a general. Can still lay down some beating but are probably better off making sure the engagement happens how you want it to, ensuring allies get the hits they need, making them tougher and stronger and keeping them in the fight.

A low-level War cleric is all about the fight, the high-level war cleric is about the war.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Honestly, since they gave extra attack to 3 full casting archetypes without fear of breaking anything, I think the war cleric could benefit of extra attack at level 6. Or maybe, since level 6 is generally given to channel divinity features, just translate blade singing to divine flavor.

 

[CapnZapp]

My quick and dirty read leads me to believe the war cleric changes roles as experience is gained.

At low levels it works as a great frontline warrior. Nice defense, good weapons, the ability to basically guarantee a hit when you really need it, strong spell support. That is quite a package for a strong soldier.

As higher levels hit, you turn from a soldier to a general. Can still lay down some beating but are probably better off making sure the engagement happens how you want it to, ensuring allies get the hits they need, making them tougher and stronger and keeping them in the fight.

A low-level War cleric is all about the fight, the high-level war cleric is about the war.

Sure, except an optimized build is a build where low-level abilities remain relevant and/or get augmented by high-level abilities.

The War Cleric problem is that it's core feature might be correctly weighted for level 1 play, but is rendered utterly irrelevant by level 5.

 

[Rossbert]

Sure, except an optimized build is a build where low-level abilities remain relevant and/or get augmented by high-level abilities.

The War Cleric problem is that it's core feature might be correctly weighted for level 1 play, but is rendered utterly irrelevant by level 5.

Doesn't its core feature expand to cover party members at level six? I guess I think of the channel divinity as the 'core' feature, with the bonus attack being just a little boost like dragon sorcerer armor. It is there, but you may not use it a ton.

 

[mellored]

IMO:

1st:
War Priest Blessing:
When you use an action to cast a cleric spell of 1st level or higher, you can make a melee weapon attack as a bonus action.

2nd:
Channel Divinity:
When you or another creature within 60' hit a creature with an attack, you can make the hit a critical hit.

6th:
When you score a critical hit, you deal 3d6 extra damage. This increases to 4d6 at level (follow proficency bonus).

(leave 8 and 17 as is).

 

[Blue]

I don't see a problem with giving a full caster extra attack - you are either using the Attack action or you are using a Cast A Spell action. (Though not in addition to their bonus attack.)

Where the problem comes in is when that casting allows self buffing that will surpass the features given by the melee classes, because then they are a better melee combatant plus have the rest of their casting. This was very prevelant in D&D 3.x, where long lasting buff spells were layers on each other to make an titan of combat.

In 5e, the Concentration mechanic lessens then chance of this greatly. Some of the spells I'm seeing in XGtE could be worrisome, but they're not generally on the Cleric list except for holy weapon.

Actually, one way to improve the War cleric might be to leave it alone mechanically and just pick some extra spells from non-PHB sources that support melee that it has access to. Perhaps replacing domain spells - while they are generally a good melee mix, most of the require concentration so using one locks you out of using others.

 

[TwoSix]

IMO:

1st:
War Priest Blessing:
When you use an action to cast a cleric spell of 1st level or higher, you can make a melee weapon attack as a bonus action.

I thought about this option, and I think it's a good one. The only downside I saw is that is makes Spiritual Weapon slightly less useful, which is a shame since it's a domain spell. But I think that's a pretty minor problem, overall.

 

[CapnZapp]

IMO:

1st:
War Priest Blessing:
When you use an action to cast a cleric spell of 1st level or higher, you can make a melee weapon attack as a bonus action.

Much better

 

[CapnZapp]

I don't see a problem with giving a full caster extra attack - you are either using the Attack action or you are using a Cast A Spell action. (Though not in addition to their bonus attack.)

The problem with War Cleric is that it gets an extra attack as if that was a huge deal.

 

[Ancalagon]

The problem with War Cleric is that it gets an extra attack as if that was a huge deal.

Even worse: an extra attack from a bonus action, and only a few times a day!

Now that is miserly design...