AC 56 at level 6! You too can do it!

[The Blue Elf]

I remember creating a Female Halfing Rogue I gave her Dexterity a 17 plus Dexterity bonus +2 giving her a 19.By the time she hit 4th level with Ability score increase, and then added Dex too giveing here Ability score a total of 20 dex Her AC total adding here AC bonus was 17+ Size bonus making it 18 total. It doesn't mean I took advantage of anything It sure help me avoid being hit at times but still get hit. The one thing I can do hit at long range at someone, can't fight in Melee.


If you think you can take advantage of that then your sadly mistaken a DM can find more possible ways too kill you through magical means if you are depending on AC too protect you from Melee battles.Because DM would may send a Balisk or a Drangon too Finish you off.

 

[Seeten]

Wow, an 18 ac? For Realz?

 

[Darklone]

Wow, an 18 ac? For Realz?

Powergamermunchkin

 

[hanniball]

Warning: Somewhat long post

This thread is making me see the value of using Core Rules Only. I imagine that the maximum AC at 6th level would be considerably lower, then.

If by "considerably" you mean 6 points lower, then you are correct. Everything in my 55 AC build was core-only save for the Alter Self cast via Anyspell (PGtF). Edit: Divine Spell Power and Divine Shield are also non-core.

When compared to pun-pun, getting 56 AC is not especially impressive. Given the great variety of books out there, some power-gamey combos are possible. That some power gamers feel the need to abuse that is regretable, but mostly correctable.

Dude, what is impressive when compared to pun-pun? Also, it doesn't take a "great variety of books" to generate an optimized character, or "power-gamey" as you put it, as the core rules can provide significantly powerful characters and builds. Utilizing most of these rules to create an effective character is not regretable, but encouragable in my opinion. Obviously, with great power comes even greater responsibility as a role-player, however.

Hannibal, I like your cleric6 stuff.... it's nearly all PHB right?

It's expensive to pull off... but looks cool. Even if something might be wrong, that turtle deserves the name.

Thanks. Honestly, I just threw every AC boosting effect I could think of off the top of my head and it turned out decent and playable. The only thing non-Phb is the Anyspell spell from the Player's Guide to Faerun. That's how I get the +6 natural armor bonus to enhance with Barkskin. Helpful, but far from necessary.

I have to agree with Iku Rex that flavor text does not override game mechanics

While I agree, how does one specifically differentiate "flavor text" from "game mechanics?" I can think of a few Prc requirements that appear to be nothing but flavor text.

Frankly, I think 99% of this high-AC nonesense happens because Polymorph effects can grant huge chunks of natural AC. Fortunately, my players show no interest in Polymorph abuse, and if they did I'd have to take measures. Like declaring all magical items are absorbed into the new form whether it happens to be humanoid or not.

Actually, I think WotC should nix Polymorph as a spell and keep it as a sub-type. Then all they need to do is make sure the ridiculous forms are sufficiently high-level spells. In exchange, make some weaker forms that can be used by low-level casters.

Have you read the PhBII's description of the polymorph subschool? As per this rules change, all gear worn or carried melds into the new form. Also, you lose all class features and special abilities. If this doesn't balance Polymorph, I don't know what will. WotC's feeble attempts are the Trollshape and Dragonshape spells (PhBII again) which are powerful in their own right, but simply pale in comparison to Polymorph and Shapechange, respectively.

This puts me within striking range of your AC 56 character using no items other than a mundane crossbow, using only spells that the character can cast themselves, and using only the core books. It is also about a hundred times "easier" than any of the min-maxed AC builds I've seen posted in this thread

Ok, so you get one attack, every other round, and you need a 18-20 to hit the ACs presented...doesn't make for a very sound argument, considering the minimal use of non-core material used to generate a high AC.

Granted, but it may be all you need. Likewise, as with most super-ac builds, a single dispel magic brings the whole thing crashing down.

Note that in any spellcasting-based high AC build, caster level modification is essential and, therefore, makes dispelling much more difficult in an appropriate CR encounter. Also note that Dispel Magic actually only dispels one spell at a time.

High defense while lacking offense and other playability out of combat is a waste of time.

Alter Form and Polymorph, while good for silly builds, are almost never used in real D&D combat situations. Because it isn't fun to be polymorphed into another race, unless you are a Druid or a shapechanging wizard or some class that treats shapechanging as normal.

The best offense is a good defense. At least there are many that adhere to this particular doctrine.

I'm not sure what you mean by "real D&D," but in the campaigns I've played in Polymorph and Alter Self have seen extensive use. It is extremely entertaining to play a frail wizard type that, when required to participate in melee combat, can become an effective combatant through the use of such spells. It also makes for a great escape plan and situational problem solver, as it can grant flight capabilities, reach, specific damage types (slashing, piercing, bludgeoning), swim/burrow/climb speed, and an effective disguise.

Your statement is not only generalized, but just plain wrong.

Once again, we ask you to show us the easy (not hard) way. I'm positive I'm not alone when I say that no one has yet given an easy way to AC 50-something. On the other hand, I'd say that Deset Gled offered an easy way to +37 attack bonus

What constitutes "easy" in your opinion? Casting a few spells is pretty damn easy for any cleric and, as Deset Gled has shown, any wizard as well. If boosting one's attack bonus through the use of magic is "easy" then so, too, is enhancing one's armor class.

That's an effective bonus of more than +62 to hit (+42 when not using true strike) without taking into account strength enhancing magic items or even a masterwork weapon. With True Strike, it's an autohit against your "nigh untouchable AC."

Spells and powers that allow a character to bypass specific aspects of another's AC is not a bonus to hit and should, therefore, not be included in this particular discussion, IMO. Otherwise one word destroys a massive amount of AC potential: Wraithstrike.

*whew* Finally, where did the OP go? S/he hasn't posted since the first page.

 

[Cabral]

Moritheil, your big claim is in two threads now. One thread you even started yourself on the topic.

But, we're all still waiting for your 4 combats per day AC 57 Elven Artificer. You already disappointed us by dropping it from 60+ to 57. Don't tell me that you are going to disappoint us again.

Tick, tick, tick, ..., zzzzzzzzzz

He's not going to. Maybe he doesn't want anyone exposing any flaws in the build. Or maybe he's moping because "it's easy" to bypass or ignore his AC 57+ while maintaining more of the versatility his build gives up. Or maybe he doesn't want to return to the thread only to admit that his original assertion is false.

Or maybe he was just trolling. He began the thread with what I thought was an arrogant air, though it may have been due the anonymity of the internet. Once requests for proof came in, he stopped posting. If I still posted as frequently I used to, I'd be tempted to put him on my ignore list. Okay, even I'm not cranky these days enough to do it, but I'd still consider it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Have you read the PhBII's description of the polymorph subschool? As per this rules change, all gear worn or carried melds into the new form. Also, you lose all class features and special abilities.

I'm away from my PHBII, but doesn't the subschool description specify that all the subschool rules only apply unless the spell text states otherwise?

Alter Self (which Polymorph references) states "When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional" and "You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels".

So the losing class features and losing equipment clauses of the subschool don't apply to Alter Self (and thus Polymorph), due to the precedence clause... unless I'm misremembering.

Edit - Here we go:
For the purpose of adjudicating effects that apply to polymorph spells, any spell whose effect is based on either alter self or polymorph should be considered to have the polymorph subschool. However, note that the spells' existing rules text takes priority over that of the subschool.

-Hyp.

 

[hanniball]

I'm away from my PHBII, but doesn't the subschool description specify that all the subschool rules only apply unless the spell text states otherwise?

Why yes, it does. 3rd sentance into the description...I totally overlooked it. Nice catch.

 

[Darklone]

Well. I like the cleric build. Remove Anyspell and he still needs a scroll for the maximum effect and some rounds to prepare. That's ok, given that many encounters will nonetheless have no problem to kill the cleric. Or all his buddies.

 

[Nail]

... it doesn't take a "great variety of books" to generate an optimized character, or "power-gamey" as you put it, as the core rules can provide significantly powerful characters and builds. Utilizing most of these rules to create an effective character is not regretable, but encouragable in my opinion.

Agreed. Making an effective PC is a great idea!

For a spell caster (and especially for a cleric), getting a good AC while being effective in other ways is do-able, even at 6th level. Concider that the "average" Attack mod such a spell-caster will run into at that level is ~+12. So even having a 28 AC means most things will "have trouble" hitting.

But what we've seen in this thread is that in order to pull off an impressive AC above 50, you must:

• Spend several rounds with prep spells (your "off-the-cuff" build requires 6 spells),
• Several feats or one-of-a-kind bonuses (like being of Venerable age for the Chr bonus!),
• Using scrolls with a CL higher than your own CL,
• Use Alter Self (or some simliar spell) to grab a poorly thought thru monster form, and
• Fight defensively or Combat Expertise.

All of which together add up to: Not Easy.

...or, at the very least: Not an effective PC.

Also note that Dispel Magic actually only dispels one spell at a time.

You sure 'bout that?

 

[SlagMortar]

Feats: Combat Expertise (1), Divine Spell Power (Human), Dodge (3), Divine Shield (6)

If by "considerably" you mean 6 points lower, then you are correct. Everything in my 55 AC build was core-only save for the Alter Self cast via Anyspell (PGtF).

I don't think Divine Spell Power and Divine Shield are core. Crystal Keep says they are from Complete Divine and Complete Warrior respectively.

Edit: I believe that takes away about 10 AC (in addition to 6 from Anyspell) leaving the core part of your build at 39, though I'm sure you could do a little better if you replaced that part of your strategy with core available resources.