Action Points

[cuteasaurus]

Aren't we only talking about major bad guys or "bosses?"

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

Aren't we only talking about major bad guys or "bosses?"

I think it's safe to assume anyone with a name will have Action Points. So - Native Brave #2 won't have actions points, but the chief will.

 

[The_Universe]

Aren't we only talking about major bad guys or "bosses?"

That's a little videogame-ish, and not quite correct.

In D20 Modern, most people are "mundanes" who can gain experience, but are not adventurers - they don't have access to most class abilities, and they don't get action points. These are the thugs, etc. of the game - people who you'd expect to drop after a couple of hits, though some of them can get reasonably high level. They're not "adventurers" or "characters" really - just back drop.

Some creatures and characters are "heros" (or villains) controlled by the GM, and they do get action points (and access to all of those class abilities). While not precisely video-game style bosses, you're not likely to run into a horde of minions all made of heroic characters. Liz puts it pretty well above, but I would add that the Chief's elite warriors might also have action points, as they might be a little more than mooks or minions.

Does that help?

 

[cuteasaurus]

Help? You described exactly what I was saying...Call them villians or bosses or anit-heroes or simply "named" we're all describing the same set of characters. I was just pointing out that before when you said "most fights would go quickly" that we weren't talking about "most fights" since fights with these main characters are def. not the majority of encounters.

 

[NuclearWookiee]

This thread is starting to run a little out of control... not real sure why it's devolved into a lecture on the difference between "professional" and "non-professional" class characters when all of us here have a minimum of several years of rpg xp (that stands for experience, just in case I'm wrong ). Let's recap...

cuteasaurus says:

And, since you could "hoard" AP, you could essentially make yourself untouchable for an entire fight with a "boss." In the end, I just think the defense use adds more complications than it's worth.

Clearly referring to major "villains" and not "thugs".

Queen_Dopplepopolis says:

All the NPCs have APs, too.

Not so clearly referring to major "villains" and not "thugs".

NuclearWookiee says:

Holy prolonged fights, Batman!

A clearly weak interjection of humor regarding aforementioned notion of the universality of action point usage.

The_Universe says:

Only "major" bad guys get Action Points in modern...

The restatement of a condition previously assumed in posing the original query.

cuteasaurus says:

Aren't we only talking about major bad guys or "bosses?"

The bow-wearing velociraptor expresses confusion over how the topic strayed from "major" bad guys.

Queen_Dopplepopolis says:

I think it's safe to assume anyone with a name will have Action Points. So - Native Brave #2 won't have actions points, but the chief will.

Almost back to the original query... we all agree that the "chief", "boss", or "major bad guy", etc. will have action points.

The_Universe says:

That's a little videogame-ish, and not quite correct.

In D20 Modern, most people are "mundanes" who can gain experience, but are not adventurers - they don't have access to most class abilities, and they don't get action points. These are the thugs, etc. of the game - people who you'd expect to drop after a couple of hits, though some of them can get reasonably high level. They're not "adventurers" or "characters" really - just back drop.

Some creatures and characters are "heros" (or villains) controlled by the GM, and they do get action points (and access to all of those class abilities). While not precisely video-game style bosses, you're not likely to run into a horde of minions all made of heroic characters. Liz puts it pretty well above, but I would add that the Chief's elite warriors might also have action points, as they might be a little more than mooks or minions.

Does that help?

An insightful and informed, however wholly disconnected from the original observation, examination of the difference between hero and non-hero characters.

cuteasaurus says:

Help? You described exactly what I was saying...

Prelude to fatal confusion...



To simplify (hopefully): the question Clarissa posed never had anything to do with who gets action points and who doesn't, but rather what happens between players and those characters, or "bosses" if you will, who do possess them. And that question was how exactly will AP hoarding affect climactic battles (heroes vs "major" bad guys)? Once you hit level 15, you basically have a 50% chance of getting a result of "6" when using an AP. Considering the "standard" BAB scale in d20 Modern is 0 to 15, that means you essentially have a 1 in 2 chance to negate 6-11 character levels of your opponent's attack bonus (6 levels for a "Strong Hero" type vs 11 levels for a "Charismatic Hero" type), depending on his class. Looking at it from a Defense Bonus perspective, now you're talking about adding anywhere from 8 to 20 character levels of DB (DB of 6 is roughly equal to 8 levels of a "Fast Hero" type versus 20 levels of a "Charismatic Hero" type). Of course if he were able, I'm sure he would use an AP to boost his AB by 6. And so it would continue, assuming this was a "one on one" battle. Add a third element to the mix, and the villain can no longer afford to use his one AP per round on attack, as he would then be vulnerable to the increased AB of his second attacker. And so on...

Hopefully you see my point. Clarissa wasn't asking who receives AP, she was pointing out that AP "hoarding" is going to be a natural occurrence.


Since the players know the "major" bad guys will have AP supplies, they will naturally stockpile for such encounters. And why not? Neutralizing 6-11 character levels worth of AB on a fairly regular basis is pretty handy.

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

Hey Chris - I use the "at work" skin for ENWorld (as do many) - which means my background is light colored instead of dark colored. Is it possible for you to use normal font color (or at least a color that is visible to those of us with the "at work" setting?)

Thanks!

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

My previous comment about "all NPCs having APs" was based on my experience in the Kingdom of Ashes game where everyone *did* have APs.

However - it is also important to note that, once we level up a couple levels, everyone that we fight *will* have APs (unless we happen to be fighting something or someone without a character class... which is unlikely after say, 5th level).

 

[The_Universe]

This thread is starting to run a little out of control... not real sure why it's devolved into a lecture on the difference between "professional" and "non-professional" class characters when all of us here have a minimum of several years of rpg xp (that stands for experience, just in case I'm wrong ). Let's recap...





Clearly referring to major "villains" and not "thugs".





Not so clearly referring to major "villains" and not "thugs".





A clearly weak interjection of humor regarding aforementioned notion of the universality of action point usage.





The restatement of a condition previously assumed in posing the original query.





The bow-wearing velociraptor expresses confusion over how the topic strayed from "major" bad guys.





Almost back to the original query... we all agree that the "chief", "boss", or "major bad guy", etc. will have action points.





An insightful and informed, however wholly disconnected from the original observation, examination of the difference between hero and non-hero characters.





Prelude to fatal confusion...



To simplify (hopefully): the question Clarissa posed never had anything to do with who gets action points and who doesn't, but rather what happens between players and those characters, or "bosses" if you will, who do possess them. And that question was how exactly will AP hoarding affect climactic battles (heroes vs "major" bad guys)? Once you hit level 15, you basically have a 50% chance of getting a result of "6" when using an AP. Considering the "standard" BAB scale in d20 Modern is 0 to 15, that means you essentially have a 1 in 2 chance to negate 6-11 character levels of your opponent's attack bonus (6 levels for a "Strong Hero" type vs 11 levels for a "Charismatic Hero" type), depending on his class. Looking at it from a Defense Bonus perspective, now you're talking about adding anywhere from 8 to 20 character levels of DB (DB of 6 is roughly equal to 8 levels of a "Fast Hero" type versus 20 levels of a "Charismatic Hero" type). Of course if he were able, I'm sure he would use an AP to boost his AB by 6. And so it would continue, assuming this was a "one on one" battle. Add a third element to the mix, and the villain can no longer afford to use his one AP per round on attack, as he would then be vulnerable to the increased AB of his second attacker. And so on...

Hopefully you see my point. Clarissa wasn't asking who receives AP, she was pointing out that AP "hoarding" is going to be a natural occurrence.


Since the players know the "major" bad guys will have AP supplies, they will naturally stockpile for such encounters. And why not? Neutralizing 6-11 character levels worth of AB on a fairly regular basis is pretty handy.

Yes - that's the case, and probably a completely reasonable state of affairs. Action points will be stored by players (probably) to help them defeat NPCs and monsters whom they percieve as greater than normal threats. Of course, since non-major NPCs can also prove threatening, a good number of action points are often spent in defense against them.

Hording AP's is fine - they're your action points. Do whatever the heck you want with them.

 

[The_Universe]

And as an ancillary note, I think we'll just go with the RAW for action point uses, as Chris has elucidated an excellent argument as to why their use to increase defense strongly favors certain classes.

 

[NuclearWookiee]

Hey Chris - I use the "at work" skin for ENWorld (as do many) - which means my background is light colored instead of dark colored. Is it possible for you to use normal font color (or at least a color that is visible to those of us with the "at work" setting?)

Thanks!

Yeah, sorry about that. I had to write the post in Word and tried to match the font color to the rest of the posts. It looks good on mine.