AD&D 2E and The Immortal's Handbook

How does everyone feel about this concept?
Have you done this?
If you did, how did you implement it?

I personally use Faiths & Avatars (the most updated AD&D 2E rules) with a few minor tweaks and update Deities and Demigods 1E for the actual deities (not Avatars).

I find it works well up to Lesser Deity tier. However, I would like to more properly convert The Immortal's Handbook stuff to AD&D 2E, monsters included.
 

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How does everyone feel about this concept?
Have you done this?
If you did, how did you implement it?

I personally use Faiths & Avatars (the most updated AD&D 2E rules) with a few minor tweaks and update Deities and Demigods 1E for the actual deities (not Avatars).

I find it works well up to Lesser Deity tier. However, I would like to more properly convert The Immortal's Handbook stuff to AD&D 2E, monsters included.

Apologies for the slow reply amigo. Must have missed this.

Well the thing is 1st Edition (which basically IS identical to 2nd Edition) already had no level limit, rules for deities (at the back of 1e Manual of the Planes and also expanded upon in the World of Greyhawk boxed set (gold and red box) which added rules for Hero-deities and Quasi-deities. You had the stats for immortals in Deities & Demigods/Legends & Lore.
 

How does everyone feel about this concept?
Have you done this?
If you did, how did you implement it?

I personally use Faiths & Avatars (the most updated AD&D 2E rules) with a few minor tweaks and update Deities and Demigods 1E for the actual deities (not Avatars).

I find it works well up to Lesser Deity tier. However, I would like to more properly convert The Immortal's Handbook stuff to AD&D 2E, monsters included.
This seems cool as hell. Probably easier to implement than 3.5 too tbh
 

This seems cool as hell. Probably easier to implement than 3.5 too tbh
My changes to Faiths & Avatars include...
d20's for Hit Dice, if demi-deity or higher,
Ability Scores up to 50 (with scaling benefits),
AC and THACO have no caps,
Damage based on size and Virtual Size Categories,
Virtual Size Categories based on what your Strength would be in 3.5 based on your damage modifier,
Natural AC bonuses,
Bonus divine ability slots based on your rank + 2 cosmics based on your portfolios instead of scaling portfolios.
No ability score, AC, THACO, Magic Resistance, Save, Skill rank, or divine status prerequisites for abilities since AD&D 2E and even 1E toss all that in the toilet.
Multiple overlapping Classes and Kits w/o the disadvantages, but at an exp cost, etc.
Over deities (up to First Ones) are basically like Greater Gods, but outrank their lessers (being able to freely demote or promote those in their own pantheons at no cost) and have a few extra abilities.
Beings beyond demiurges are unfathomable even to gods.

Apologies for the slow reply amigo. Must have missed this.

Well the thing is 1st Edition (which basically IS identical to 2nd Edition) already had no level limit, rules for deities (at the back of 1e Manual of the Planes and also expanded upon in the World of Greyhawk boxed set (gold and red box) which added rules for Hero-deities and Quasi-deities. You had the stats for immortals in Deities & Demigods/Legends & Lore.

No apologies necessary. I lurk mostly, but I check the site every few days or so.

I found 1E and 2E to be very different with how they handled deities. 1E had actual stats that made sense, while the divine abilities were kinda weak. 2E gimped the Avatars heavily, but boosted the actual gods themselves to levels that were largely unmanageable until they made corrections in Faiths & Avatars that made them more usable until you hit Intermediate god tier.

Although, in all honesty, even their most absurd abilities were useless against other gods and mostly for micromanaging mortals.
 

My changes to Faiths & Avatars include...
d20's for Hit Dice, if demi-deity or higher,

Doing that changes the Barbarian to Wizard hp dynamic.

Ability Scores up to 50 (with scaling benefits),

I think maybe Ability Scores 25 max for Intermediate Gods*, 26 for Greater Gods (Pantheon Heads), then +1 max for each Divine Status above that.

*1E Greater Gods who were not Pantheon Heads.

No apologies necessary. I lurk mostly, but I check the site every few days or so.

:)

I found 1E and 2E to be very different with how they handled deities. 1E had actual stats that made sense, while the divine abilities were kinda weak. 2E gimped the Avatars heavily, but boosted the actual gods themselves to levels that were largely unmanageable until they made corrections in Faiths & Avatars that made them more usable until you hit Intermediate god tier.

Although, in all honesty, even their most absurd abilities were useless against other gods and mostly for micromanaging mortals.

I think the 1E Divine Abilities were a bit random, but some of them were very powerful.
 

Little known bit of ability score history.
(I've been researching older editions lately.)
Gygax and friends used stats up to at least 32.
My source for this is Dragon Magazine 36 pg. 16.
I found it by pure dumb luck while I was searching for stuff about angels.
This was for mortal giants and gods alike.
They nerfed it fairly quickly.
 

Little known bit of ability score history.
(I've been researching older editions lately.)
Gygax and friends used stats up to at least 32.
My source for this is Dragon Magazine 36 pg. 16.
I found it by pure dumb luck while I was searching for stuff about angels.
This was for mortal giants and gods alike.
They nerfed it fairly quickly.

They still used scores of 26 in the World of Greyhawk Boxed set.

Gary Gygax told me via email correspondence we had 20 years ago that (before he was ousted from TSR) he was planning a book which re-vamped all the Demon Princes/Lords, Archdevils and Dukes, Slaad Lords, Daemon Masters and so forth. They were all going to have d12 for hit dice he told me.
 

Max. Ability Score

25 1E Greater God (not Pantheon Head), 2E Intermediate God
26 Greater God (Pantheon Head)
27 Elder God
28 Old One
29 Ancient One
30 First One

Max. Ability Score could be a Divine Ability.

Hit Points

100 Hero-deity
150 Quasi-deity
200 Demigod
300 Lesser God
400 1E Greater God (not Pantheon Head), 2E Intermediate God
600 Greater God (Pantheon Head)
800 Elder God
1000 Old One
1500 Ancient One
2000 First One
 

Max. Ability Score

25 1E Greater God (not Pantheon Head), 2E Intermediate God
26 Greater God (Pantheon Head)
27 Elder God
28 Old One
29 Ancient One
30 First One

Max. Ability Score could be a Divine Ability.

Hit Points

100 Hero-deity
150 Quasi-deity
200 Demigod
300 Lesser God
400 1E Greater God (not Pantheon Head), 2E Intermediate God
600 Greater God (Pantheon Head)
800 Elder God
1000 Old One
1500 Ancient One
2000 First One
I like uncapped ability scores myself, but the highest I ever saw for 2E was a 50 Constitution for Death in Mayfair Games' Archmagic material. Unless you count their take on Ahriman with his literally Infinite Intelligence score. He's in Monsters of Myth and Legend 3, pg. 49. This is comparable to Atlas having Infinite Strength on the prime in 1E.

Hit points might work for 1E, but 2E you can easily exceed 400 even as a mere mortal. I believe humans dual classing and optimizing the right way can exceed 400 even without Dark Sun cheese.

Even d12s also seem pointless to me considering the potential damage output of optimized wizards.

Oldschool barbarians don't exist in 2E.
 

I like uncapped ability scores myself, but the highest I ever saw for 2E was a 50 Constitution for Death in Mayfair Games' Archmagic material. Unless you count their take on Ahriman with his literally Infinite Intelligence score. He's in Monsters of Myth and Legend 3, pg. 49. This is comparable to Atlas having Infinite Strength on the prime in 1E.

I'm not a fan of uncapped Ability Scores.

I thought it was a good idea in 3E/3.5E, but after seeing the consequences of them (much like infinite class levels) they don't make the game better, far too prone to abuse, make the d20 secondary.

Hit points might work for 1E, but 2E you can easily exceed 400 even as a mere mortal. I believe humans dual classing and optimizing the right way can exceed 400 even without Dark Sun cheese.

The multi-classing in 1E needed a bit of work.

Even d12s also seem pointless to me considering the potential damage output of optimized wizards.

Examples?

Oldschool barbarians don't exist in 2E.

2E was just a milquetoast 1E
 

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