AD&D 2E and The Immortal's Handbook

[FleshEatingBlackFlutterby]

I'm not a fan of uncapped Ability Scores.

I thought it was a good idea in 3E/3.5E, but after seeing the consequences of them (much like infinite class levels) they don't make the game better, far too prone to abuse, make the d20 secondary.



The multi-classing in 1E needed a bit of work.



Examples?



2E was just a milquetoast 1E

Deities spells are usually uncapped, so nearly any damaging spell can make even 400 hp worthless. I once had a player inflict somewhere near 1000 points of damage without breaking any rules or using time stop cheese. I forget exactly how, but it was technically not illegal, so I allowed it.
Even fighters using optional TSR rules and enchanted weapons can get fairly nasty. Though mages were definitely the worst.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Deities spells are usually uncapped, so nearly any damaging spell can make even 400 hp worthless. I once had a player inflict somewhere near 1000 points of damage without breaking any rules or using time stop cheese. I forget exactly how, but it was technically not illegal, so I allowed it.
Even fighters using optional TSR rules and enchanted weapons can get fairly nasty. Though mages were definitely the worst.

We had a Level 500 Wizard kill a Greater God with Magic Missile...but he was Level 500.

I don't see any sub-100 Level caster one-shotting a god. So not sure what spells your player was casting or what level they were.

 

[FleshEatingBlackFlutterby]

We had a Level 500 Wizard kill a Greater God with Magic Missile...but he was Level 500.

I don't see any sub-100 Level caster one-shotting a god. So not sure what spells your player was casting or what level they were.

Not one shotting, but solo and within 5 rounds. Ideally a 4 member party fight with a god should last at least 10 rounds. I mean, it's a god. It should be difficult.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Not one shotting, but solo and within 5 rounds. Ideally a 4 member party fight with a god should last at least 10 rounds. I mean, it's a god. It should be difficult.

I recall our god fights lasting 2 rounds tops, haste doubled attacks in 1E. So Thrin would be dealing 12 attacks of 2d12+17 plus sharpness chance or something like that.

I think 1E haste was so ridiculous S'mon broke the rounds into half or quarter most of the time.

So Thrin (12 attacks hasted, dealing 2d12+17 or so) vs. Druaga (8 attacks hasted, dealing 49 per hit), would be roll initiative, say Thrin wins: he gets 3 attacks, Druaga gets 2, then repeat.

 

[ArcanistDragonborn]

Jeez, if my Sorlockadin build in 5e got 12 attacks a round, they could deal enough damage to kill a Elder One 10 times over, assuming full crits and a restrained/prone god.

 

[FleshEatingBlackFlutterby]

Currently I use 3.5 Ascension mostly as a guideline for divine ability slots, integrated class features, and portfolios. I plan to stick with d20's for Hit Dice and Ability score maxes of 50 since there's precedence with ability bonuses being doubled for a couple of deities. Plus I never liked the cap of 25, especially for giants, dragons, gods, kaiju, etc.. It never made sense to me.

The only thing I've had issues with is natural armor bonuses. Especially for virtual size categories. I get that 2E is basically a primitive 3.0, but the way they work natural armor is arbitrary seeming. Monsters that should have skin like armor plating frequently have weak natural armor. While others have natural armor that's too good.

I have considered scaling back virtual size bonuses to armor class or just removing size bonuses and virtual size bonuses entirely since 2E makes no use of size bonuses, except when dealing damage. ...or just making armor and natural armor not stack at all. With the better bonus prevailing. I'm experimenting thus far, but I'm leaning towards not letting armor and natural armor stack and not using size or virtual size bonuses.

I'm also considering getting rid of damage caps for all gods. They really shouldn't have mortal limitations like that anyway. Especially since they already have the ability to do things like make up newer and better spells on the fly. Like a 9th level version of fireball with no damage cap that bypasses fire immunity. (Just an example.)

 

[AnderNGmx]

Aren't the immortals of 2e, that was mystara or some other setting, equivalent thus another name for a deity that is a demigod or a deity of a specific rank or am i still confused?

 

[FleshEatingBlackFlutterby]

Aren't the immortals of 2e, that was mystara or some other setting, equivalent thus another name for a deity that is a demigod or a deity of a specific rank or am i still confused?

Deities in 2E underwent several changes and weren't officially finalized until Faiths & Avatars. That book had the most updated rules. Unfortunately, they never made the manifestations, just the avatars.

Although they did outline what gods of demigod to greater god status were capable of.

Mystaran Immortals specifically were suppposed to be converted to these rules, but were barely mentioned in any of the material. They were talked about only briefly in some Planescape books I think (I'd have to read them again to be sure.). My best guess is that they just never got around to it. I have no idea why.

 

[Alzrius]

Mystaran Immortals specifically were suppposed to be converted to these rules, but were barely mentioned in any of the material. They were talked about only briefly in some Planescape books I think (I'd have to read them again to be sure.). My best guess is that they just never got around to it. I have no idea why.

The most comprehensive AD&D 2E presentation we ever got of having Mystara's immortals be converted to deities was an appendix at the end of Warriors of Heaven, which listed the good- and neutral-aligned deities of Mystara (along with every other pantheon) in terms of deity rank (e.g. greater deity, intermediate deity, etc.), alignment, portfolio, etc. It also gave the plane they resided on and what the name of their divine realm was!

 

[FleshEatingBlackFlutterby]

The most comprehensive AD&D 2E presentation we ever got of having Mystara's immortals be converted to deities was an appendix at the end of Warriors of Heaven, which listed the good- and neutral-aligned deities of Mystara (along with every other pantheon) in terms of deity rank (e.g. greater deity, intermediate deity, etc.), alignment, portfolio, etc. It also gave the plane they resided on and what the name of their divine realm was!

Thank you. I was trying to remember which book it was.
Useful info to have.