Adamantine and DR

[kreynolds]

You're either making a joke or missing my point.

Neither. I just don't see the validity of your point. There's a difference.

For example, the adamantine battleaxe on page 188 of the Dungeon Master's Guide has a "natural +2 enhancement bonus", not a "+2 natural enhancement bonus."

Again, I ask, explain how they are different.

 

[Kraedin]

The normal nomenclature for bonuses is +X bonus type to attribute.

Because of this standardization, we know that "+2 natural armor bonus to AC" means that this effect give a +2 bonus, of the type "natural armor" to the attribute of Armor Class.

From this, we know that a "+2 enhancement bonus" means that the effect gives a +2 bonus of the type "enhancement."

The adamantine battleaxe is written "+2 enhancement bonus". From this, we know that the adamantine battleaxe has a +2 enhancement bonus (to attack and damage rolls).

 

[kreynolds]

The normal nomenclature for bonuses is +X bonus type to attribute.

I swear, I don't intend any insult, but I simply see no validity at all to that argument. It's thin.

There's another point I'd like to make though. The fact that adamantine has a "natural bonus", or the fact that it "naturally has an enhancment bonus" is completely and totally irrelevant. DR usually requires a magical weapon to bypass it. The exception is when the DR of the creature specifically states otherwise, such as 10/silver for a werewolf.

Quite simply...
1) Adamantine is not magical, thus no bypassing DR.
2) Adamantine makes no mention of it specifically being able to bypass DR when other materials cannot, thus no bypassing DR.

Adamantine does not bypass DR.

 

[Kraedin]

Saying it's thin doesn't make it so.

I assume that you're referring to this section:

Usually, a certain type of weapon -- usually a magic weapon -- can overcome this reduction. This information is seperated from the damage reduction number by a slash.

It says "usually", not "always".

 

[Black Knight Irios]

That's what I think, as well, it says usually, OK you can say it means if there is written silver behind the slash you need no magical weapon to bypass it. But you can also assume that there are weapons with, you call it natural enhancement bonus, that may penetrate DR. However sure a magical and the enhancement boni of adamant don't stack, there is a reading given that says that. But where is written that only a magical enhancement bonus can overcome DR 20/+2. Lets take another point into account, if I use the Psipower Greatermetaphysical Weapon which also grants an enhancement bonus to attack and damage would you rule that this weapon can't pentrate the creatures DR.

 

[kreynolds]

Saying it's thin doesn't make it so.

It does in my eyes. I didn't say it did so in the eyes of everyone else.

It says "usually", not "always".

It also says that the creature's DR will note exceptions. DR does not mention anything about automatically being vulnerable to adamantine, no matter the creature. Adamantine does not mention anything about bypassing DR as an exception to the norm.

Silver can bypass a werewolf's DR. Why? Because the werewolf's DR says it can. However, silver doesn't bypass an iron golem's DR. Why? Because the golem's DR doesn't say it can. Is silver magical? No. Does silver say it can bypass a golem's DR? No. Does silver say that it can bypass all DR? No. Silver does not bypass DR.

If you can explain to me how silver can bypass DR as if it were magical, then I'll believe your argument.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

But you forget there is no reading given in any text that is about silvered weapons that it grants an enhancement bonus to attack and damage. This is the only reason that makes me suspect that adamant weapons can penetrate DR, as well.

 

[Morose]

From the Monster Manual:

Damage Reduction (Su):
The creature ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A magic weapon or a creature with its own damage reduction can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.

So there you have it. The only ways a creature takes normal damage are energy, spells, spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, magic weapons, or creatures with their own damage reduction. Period. Rule 0 it if you want to, but it seems pretty clear there to me.

 

[kreynolds]

But where is written that only a magical enhancement bonus can overcome DR 20/+2.

Nowhere. It makes specific referrences to exceptions, such as silver and werewolves, and these exceptions are noted in the creature's DR description.

Lets take another point into account, if I use the Psipower Greatermetaphysical Weapon which also grants an enhancement bonus to attack and damage would you rule that this weapon can't pentrate the creatures DR.

Its the psionic version of Greater Magic Weapon. Nothing else needs to be said.

 

[kreynolds]

But you forget there is no reading given in any text that is about silvered weapons that it grants an enhancement bonus to attack and damage.

It doesn't matter. Silver isn't magical.