Adding Defense Bonus Without Increasing Combat Length

[Kirowan]

The past week or so I've been trying to figure out a way to integrate a defense bonus into 3.5 without extending combat length too much. I haven't come close to a satisfactory answer. I'm looking for some advice. Here's how I plan to dish out DB.

Each class has a poor, average, or good DB rating that starts at 0 at level one and increases to +6, +8, and +10 respectively at 20th level. My main issue isthat I didn't want to change how armor works. I'm fine with it and don't want to have to alter pre-existing material more than I have to. However, I don't want to extend combat length to a ridiculous level.

My first thought was to reduce DB if a character is wearing armor. I was going to subtract the armor check penalty from DB. This solution kind of washes out the benefit of armor. I was then going to subtract the AC bonus of a piece of armor - 2 from the DB of a character wearing it. This doesn't do enough to reduce DB for characters who wear light and medium armor.

So, I need your help. I'm open to suggestions with a few restrictions. I want the system to work with the normal magic item assumptions. I don't really want to change armor to DR. While I'm trying to reduce combat length as much as possible, any solution that doesn't increase it by more than 20-25% is a good one. At this point I think increasing the deadliness of combat in other ways might be where the answer lies.

Thanks,

Nick

 

[gamecat]

well... a partial change to "Armor as DR" might be in order. Giving medium armor a DR of 3/- and heavy armor a DR of 5/- makes light armor less valuable. They still retain the armor bonus to AC, making the higher check penalty and reduced speed less of a damper.

I've had at least twenty rogues in mithral shirts dance around my game to my ire...

 

[Grayhawk]

Personally, I don't like the defense bonus systems that doesn't stack with armor (like the one in UA). I also don't like defense bonus systems that max out at a whopping +12 to AC, as I feel that's just too high.

Of course, according to UA, that variant is for campaigns where armor isn't as viable as in a 'normal' game, and as such the DB is meant to be able to fill the role of normal (and magical) armor.

For my personal needs, I'd rather have a DB that stacks with armor, but with a much slower progression (mostly to make it possible to remain competitive without necessarily having to resort to magical armor).

For this specific purpose, I made up the following, simple defense bonus:

'You get a bonus to your AC of +1 for every 5 points of BAB.'

Thus, fighters max out at +4, rogues at +3 and wizards at +2. These stack with armor. Just what kind of AC bonus this is (a dodge bonus?), I haven't decided yet. (I'm not using this, or any DB, variant at the moment. I just thought this up as a possible inclusion for a low(er) magic game.)

***

Hm, I just re-read your opening post and noticed something I glossed over on my first read: 'I want the system to work with the normal magic item assumptions.' So my system propably won't be what you're looking for - sorry 'bout that. But hopefully it may give you some ideas, like basing the DB progression on BAB, which I personally find the most logical...

 

[aurance]

In D&D, combat dodging/evasion is represented, in part, by hit points. If you plan to represent combat dodging via defense bonus, then you need to remove that element from hit points. Make hit points based purely on physical toughness, not on combat skill.

 

[Storyteller01]

IMC, we use a rule variant from the DMG and the AC level bonus chart (only slightly tweaked) from Arsenal.


Basically, as you level up, you gain a defense bonus, that acts like a dodge bonus in all ways (if you lose the dodge bonus you lose the level bonus, stacks with armor, etc.).

To help balance it out, players don't add 10 to the AC(AC usually figured as 10 + dex + armor + etc). The players roll when they are attacked. In effect, the base rules have you 'take 10' for defense in combat. We did away with that.

Monster conversion is easy enough. Just subtract 10 from the monsters AC. Is result the monster's total bonus to AC (We didn't bother giving monsters a level bonus, mostly because of the extra math and the fact that, like the extra attacks with a class BaB, it's concidered a class feature. Doesn't seem to effect play much)

We house ruled the a 'natural 20' defense blocks a hit completely. If both roll a 'natural 20', the defender takes the hit without the critical damage. Also, object are taking 10 when attacked(since they can't dodge)

Doesn't seem to lengthen combat (an extra roll per attack), but it does seem to add some suspense and praying to the dice (PLEASe DON'T ROLL A ONE!!!)


As for deadliness, doesn't d20 Modern have you roll for MAss damage if you take more than your Con in damage??

 

[A'koss]

You might be able to mine something out of the rules we used for our low magic game which were designed be quick in play... I'll tweak it a little bit for standard play.

IOC, you essentially have two different "ACs" - AC and DAC (Damage Absorbsion Class).

AC = 10 + Class based bonus + Dex + Shield + Misc. Magic.

AC is essentially those components which keep you from getting hit at all.

DAC = AC + Armor bonuses + Magical Armor bonues.

DAC represents the ability of armor to absorb blows.


How it works is this - If you hit the target's AC, but not high enough to hit his DAC, you inflict subdual damage. If you hit your target well enough to reach his DAC, the damage you inflict is real.

That's it.

The DAC acts a kind of buffer and subdual damage is a lot easier to recover from. It worked well in play because there was little time impact from the change. Make one roll, compare against two numbers and there was no additional math to the damage. The only thing you'll have to work out is how much of a class based AC bonus you want to give out.

IMC, I had armor have an impact class-based AC bonuses and at high levels, it was actually more advantagous to wear *less* armor.

Light armor (that imposes an armor check penalty): Bonus reduced to 3/4
Medium armor: Bonus reduced to 1/2
Heavy armor: Bonus reduced to 1/4

Hope this helps...

Cheers!

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

You might want to check out the d20 Modern SRD or Grim Tales.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

This is the table I use from my House Rules. Fighters get the good one, as do Rogues. Wizards get Poor, and Clerics get Fair, and so on. Armor provides a non magical DR based on it's standard Armor Bonus that is subtracted from the Defense Bonus Plus Dex, and so far it's worked out really well in my setting.

Table 1-9: Unarmored Defense
Level Poor Fair Good
1 +0 +1 +2
2 +0 +2 +3
3 +1 +2 +3
4 +1 +2 +4
5 +1 +3 +4
6 +2 +3 +5
7 +2 +4 +5
8 +2 +4 +6
9 +3 +4 +6
10 +3 +5 +7
11 +3 +5 +7
12 +4 +6 +8
13 +4 +6 +8
14 +4 +6 +9
15 +5 +7 +9
16 +5 +7 +10
17 +5 +8 +10
18 +6 +8 +11
19 +6 +8 +11
20 +6 +9 +12