D&D 4E Additional first level 4E characters - alternative race/class combos from pregens
invokethehojo
First Post
I keep looking at pregens and wodering: didn't the designers say 4e would be easier to manage? I haven't played yet but first level players getting this many powers to use sounds like a lot to choose from each round, and as they level they will undoubtedly get more. I want simpler, not for every charater to feel like a high level wizard.
invokethehojo
First Post
of course they need to playtest everything, so maybe they just gave everyone all the available powers. Maybe when people actually play they will only be able to choose one or two? I doubt it though
invokethehojo said:
From my playtesting experience I've found that that many powers in no way overwhelms the player, as it's very simple to understand how the power is used. I had players who got confused during every session of 3.5 sit down and, after about 5 minutes explaining the rules, play their characters with the greatest of ease.
I'm pretty sure there will be no 4E character that is even remotely as complex as a 3E wizard.invokethehojo said:
It's probably more appropriate to compare the 4E 1st level characters with 3E 3rd level characters regarding their power level / complexity.
In 4E characters will stop gaining additional powers at a certain point, then they'll just replace existing powers with more powerful ones. So high level gameplay will not be more complex than low-level gameplay.
I also believe that players will quickly figure out which of their powers are good 'default' powers and which are 'conditional' powers. Some powers will be strictly better in most situations while other powers will be the best choice if the conditions are right. So, I doubt there'll be many situations where you have to choose between more than two or three different powers.
Green Knight
First Post
A simple solution to that would've been to choose a power from another class. The Half-Elf Warlock has an extra power which likely derives from a racial ability and got a Wizard Attack with it. Likely Humans can get the same, in which case why not give Regdar Bolstering Strike (Paladin)? Or Nimble Strike (Ranger)? Or hell, maybe Regdar knows some magic and can cast Magic Missile?
invokethehojo said:
Ok I'm new. to the forum, but not DND. Let me get this straight. You want simpler? Simpler how? Simpler why? You are talking about DND, right? I can understand why Wizards wants the game simpler... but why fans? Hasbro mistakenly believe that the simpler the game, the more people will play, and is leaning really hard on WoTC. In other words dumb it down, and more dumb people will play and pay these exorbitant prices (40$ per book). But what about the smart players? DND? The game that trained the Bill Gates, and Tom Anderson's of the world? The game that might have been intricate, complex and 'wordy' but that was the point. It was for Harvard nerds, and MIT geeks, even Cal Tech prodigies. Its a game, like chess that requires dedication, memorization, and fortitude. It teaches systems, ideals, realism, and numbers to a group of people that could only think of the real world as a bland and illogical place. It stresses creativity and imagination much like pot and cocaine did to the music industry. Again I come back to the fans. Why do you want it simpler? For girls? Some may think that if it was easier then more girls would play it, and more geeks would get laid. To that I ask you to put yourself in the girls place... would you really like it if your male interest came to you and said: "oh, hey you should try the new version of DND, its much simpler now, I think You'd like it." Do you really wish to insult her intelligence? If not for women, then what? I don't mean to insult you, you really have made it easy for me, but are you really that dumb? When 3.0 came out I was surprised and a little insulted at how simple the game was. Then 3.5 made it even worse. If you really can't get some of the systems in 3.5 I would tell you to stop playing. Some of it didn't make sense. I understand that, but I can see why. When you are trying to 'dumb down' systems, you sometimes have to suspend reality. Grappling in 3.5 didn't make sense, because it was not realistic. It was made that way by wizards so you had rules that got you past the situation, and wasn't too complex. I know they could have done a better job, but no-ones perfect. Now 4.0 is coming out. Its more than likely going to be more for the 'masses.' I can accept that, I'm also intrigued by where they have gone with it. I most likely will play it. But the one thing I'm not going to complain one iota about is if some system in it is too complex. I might say its 'too simple' but the other way around? really? If its too hard, your obviously playing the wrong game.
neceros
Adventurer
You've got it all wrong, brother.Salteris said:
The word 'simpler', along with other monstrosities, have been going around too much lately. Simpler doesn't mean more dumb. In fact, it has nothing to do with it's level of intelligence or intended play.
Use the word "Streamlined." That conveys the proper meaning of what Wizards is trying to do. Attacks are against a Defense, not a Defense versus a save, for example. Giving everyone actions via powers that work universally does not mean they will all be similar or require no thinking. Wizards wants the game to be fluid and intuitive. They want you to think "What should I do next?" not "How can I do this next?"
Hope that helps.
Based on the pre-gens stats it appears that the point-buy values have changed slightly. If a 16 costs 9 points and a 18 costs 15 then all but the human character work stat-wise. The guy who made the pre-gens said the math was off on one (or more). If so it's possible to the human is only +2 to one stat.
