Ok so I've got a concept I'm really wanting to try out and would like to nail down a few details to get the most out of it. My character is a level 1 rogue and is about to level next session so I want to make sure I have a good progression path. I've been toying around with different types of Rogue builds for the past few weeks, and this is what I find most appealing. TWF may be the best on paper and when crunching numbers, but I simply find it boring. I considered a master thrower build but our Ranger is taking archery combat style and I really like the idea of getting into the thick of the fighting. Which leaves me with the spiked chain tripper rogue, and my chaotic style rogue. Chaotic meaning I will be taking a cleric level and picking up Chaotic devotion feat and "rolling" with the die persay.
Up front I know this is not the optimal way to play a Rogue, however RP wise I will have fun with it and that's what's most important to me. So with that said, it may not be "optimal" for a Rogue in general, however I do want to optimize the build with the concept in mind. RP wise my character is chaotic neutral, has no deity, very low wisdom and nothing in his background has any spiritual references. Our campaign so far has had us helping out a local village church with a mystery, and in turn they are providing us with room and board and ultimately paying us for our services. Since my guy has never been exposed to this spirituality I want it to effect him, and inspire him to become devoted to something. However not necessarily in a traditional way, more of a way that's befitting to his alignment. Instead of doing the cliche "I'm chaotic neutral and so I can just do what I want", I'd rather have him RP his chaotic side in how he fights.
Keep in mind I don't mean chaotic = idiotic, or some sort of barbarian rage fighting. My guy will use all the tools a Rogue would use to gain an advantage, but once the swords start swinging the idea will be to use the chaotic devotion random dice to decide his strategy.
So concept is... Rogue uses a greatsword and probably switches up to an Elven Courtblade to take advantage of weapon finesse. I still want TWF, but in order to use the greatsword AND spiked armor or another secondary means of damage. Since chaotic is so.. well, chaotic.. I want him to be able to do large amounts of damage fast if the dice rolls that way and inversely put him in danger if they don't. I also want to have a lot of battlefield movement freedom so that he can wreck havoc at a moments notice on anything in range(or himself haha). I really like the idea of Karmic Strike and think it fits well with the chaotic devotion feat since I can tailor my odds of the strike(and my power attack) with the luck of the chatoic dice roll.
My stats:
Str 14
Dex 17
Con 15
Int 15
Wis 7
Cha 9
Feats; TWF, point blank shot, combat reflexes(free feat from DM)
I will be retraining PBS to replace with something else and am already RPing that choice by not using any ranged attacks in the last 3 sessions. I will try to replace it with able learner even though it's theoretically too late, but since I haven't leveled yet DM may allow it. I also want to try to throw in a trait/flaw that coincides with my fighting style that DM would probably allow because it's fitting. I don't plan on doing this overnight... I would like to start to shift towards that fighting style progressively until one day my guy has his inspirational moment and takes up the cleric level to get the chaos devotion feat. At that point I'd ask for the trait/flaw to begin. I'm strapped on feats as usual so I'm going to try to optimize choices to get them. Also assume it's mostly core, complete and FR related books. A couple of choices could be outside those options if it fits my concept, but unfortunately no ToB. I SO wanted to do swordsage!
Anyways here's what I have so far.
Rogue 1) TWF, able learner, combat reflexes
Swash 1)weapon finesse, ACF (expeditious retreat for 3x a day with my int bonus)
C.Cleric 1)knowledge/travel/chaos devotion feats (no spells with my wis)feat; craven
Drow HaR variant Fighter 1) bonus combat expertise (+2 init, dex to damage flatfooted)
Drow HaR variant Fighter 2)bonus dodge
Rogue 2) feat: karmic strike
Rogue x)??
The order can be changed up however, depending on when I truly want to take the cleric level and adopt this style fullly. Swash isn't required but would give me the finesse earlier... or since my str isn't all that low I could just go greatsword awhile and pick up the elven courtblade(and EWP) later. May have to bump karmic strike to 9 but I'd love to have it earlier.
Strategy is to use chaotic devotion rolls to guide my choices(basically with this feat you roll a die before any attack and get a bonus randomly on the outcome. 1,3,5 you add to attack bonus for that round. 2,4,6 you add to ac. Die goes up to d8 and d10 later). If I can manage to get a flaw or two I would add in power attack or something early on. So when I roll high attack bonus I could dump that into power attack/combat expertise depending on my health, or choose to not lose the attack bonus and karmic strike with a really good chance of hitting. Ie; roll a 5 granting me +5 to hit that round, choose karmic strike that gives me a -4 to ac then purposely generate AoO's to generate retaliation strikes. With travel devotion swift action I can really crank them up.
I know it's very risky, but that's the idea. If it works it should pay off big, and if not I could get in trouble quickly. The idea is with an elven courtblade (1d10 18/20x2 finessable) I could do great damage on initiative strikes or flanking. At level 7 with above build a full SA would be;
1d10+3(2h 1.5x)+7(craven)+4(dex from drow fighter[id add lvl 4 pnt to dex])+1(min from know. devotion) + SA dice.
With the good crit threat range I could go improved critical/keen and have good chances to crit as well.
Again I know this isn't the best route power gaming wise, but I think it sounds fun. If my guy is fairly healthy I could do the Karmic Strikes and with the amount of movement I have with travel devotion I could get a couple AoO's just moving into position for a different creature. With travel devotion I could theoretically get an AoO or 2 purposely moving through enemy space as a swift action. Then when I'm in position get my full attack or do a standard attack and move again as a normal move action and generate more AoO's. Risky as hell but I could do some real damage if it worked out.
With this in mind what kind of advice would you offer for optimizing the feat choices and character levels? I could even drop the ACF from swash and go daring warrior and pick up insightful strike for more damage as well. For PrC's I'm really liking the Dread Commando as it seems if I read it correctly I could start using medium armor and be a bit more resilient in my chaotic fighting while also giving my party better initiative chances which just helps me out even more.
Up front I know this is not the optimal way to play a Rogue, however RP wise I will have fun with it and that's what's most important to me. So with that said, it may not be "optimal" for a Rogue in general, however I do want to optimize the build with the concept in mind. RP wise my character is chaotic neutral, has no deity, very low wisdom and nothing in his background has any spiritual references. Our campaign so far has had us helping out a local village church with a mystery, and in turn they are providing us with room and board and ultimately paying us for our services. Since my guy has never been exposed to this spirituality I want it to effect him, and inspire him to become devoted to something. However not necessarily in a traditional way, more of a way that's befitting to his alignment. Instead of doing the cliche "I'm chaotic neutral and so I can just do what I want", I'd rather have him RP his chaotic side in how he fights.
Keep in mind I don't mean chaotic = idiotic, or some sort of barbarian rage fighting. My guy will use all the tools a Rogue would use to gain an advantage, but once the swords start swinging the idea will be to use the chaotic devotion random dice to decide his strategy.
So concept is... Rogue uses a greatsword and probably switches up to an Elven Courtblade to take advantage of weapon finesse. I still want TWF, but in order to use the greatsword AND spiked armor or another secondary means of damage. Since chaotic is so.. well, chaotic.. I want him to be able to do large amounts of damage fast if the dice rolls that way and inversely put him in danger if they don't. I also want to have a lot of battlefield movement freedom so that he can wreck havoc at a moments notice on anything in range(or himself haha). I really like the idea of Karmic Strike and think it fits well with the chaotic devotion feat since I can tailor my odds of the strike(and my power attack) with the luck of the chatoic dice roll.
My stats:
Str 14
Dex 17
Con 15
Int 15
Wis 7
Cha 9
Feats; TWF, point blank shot, combat reflexes(free feat from DM)
I will be retraining PBS to replace with something else and am already RPing that choice by not using any ranged attacks in the last 3 sessions. I will try to replace it with able learner even though it's theoretically too late, but since I haven't leveled yet DM may allow it. I also want to try to throw in a trait/flaw that coincides with my fighting style that DM would probably allow because it's fitting. I don't plan on doing this overnight... I would like to start to shift towards that fighting style progressively until one day my guy has his inspirational moment and takes up the cleric level to get the chaos devotion feat. At that point I'd ask for the trait/flaw to begin. I'm strapped on feats as usual so I'm going to try to optimize choices to get them. Also assume it's mostly core, complete and FR related books. A couple of choices could be outside those options if it fits my concept, but unfortunately no ToB. I SO wanted to do swordsage!
Anyways here's what I have so far.
Rogue 1) TWF, able learner, combat reflexes
Swash 1)weapon finesse, ACF (expeditious retreat for 3x a day with my int bonus)
C.Cleric 1)knowledge/travel/chaos devotion feats (no spells with my wis)feat; craven
Drow HaR variant Fighter 1) bonus combat expertise (+2 init, dex to damage flatfooted)
Drow HaR variant Fighter 2)bonus dodge
Rogue 2) feat: karmic strike
Rogue x)??
The order can be changed up however, depending on when I truly want to take the cleric level and adopt this style fullly. Swash isn't required but would give me the finesse earlier... or since my str isn't all that low I could just go greatsword awhile and pick up the elven courtblade(and EWP) later. May have to bump karmic strike to 9 but I'd love to have it earlier.
Strategy is to use chaotic devotion rolls to guide my choices(basically with this feat you roll a die before any attack and get a bonus randomly on the outcome. 1,3,5 you add to attack bonus for that round. 2,4,6 you add to ac. Die goes up to d8 and d10 later). If I can manage to get a flaw or two I would add in power attack or something early on. So when I roll high attack bonus I could dump that into power attack/combat expertise depending on my health, or choose to not lose the attack bonus and karmic strike with a really good chance of hitting. Ie; roll a 5 granting me +5 to hit that round, choose karmic strike that gives me a -4 to ac then purposely generate AoO's to generate retaliation strikes. With travel devotion swift action I can really crank them up.
I know it's very risky, but that's the idea. If it works it should pay off big, and if not I could get in trouble quickly. The idea is with an elven courtblade (1d10 18/20x2 finessable) I could do great damage on initiative strikes or flanking. At level 7 with above build a full SA would be;
1d10+3(2h 1.5x)+7(craven)+4(dex from drow fighter[id add lvl 4 pnt to dex])+1(min from know. devotion) + SA dice.
With the good crit threat range I could go improved critical/keen and have good chances to crit as well.
Again I know this isn't the best route power gaming wise, but I think it sounds fun. If my guy is fairly healthy I could do the Karmic Strikes and with the amount of movement I have with travel devotion I could get a couple AoO's just moving into position for a different creature. With travel devotion I could theoretically get an AoO or 2 purposely moving through enemy space as a swift action. Then when I'm in position get my full attack or do a standard attack and move again as a normal move action and generate more AoO's. Risky as hell but I could do some real damage if it worked out.
With this in mind what kind of advice would you offer for optimizing the feat choices and character levels? I could even drop the ACF from swash and go daring warrior and pick up insightful strike for more damage as well. For PrC's I'm really liking the Dread Commando as it seems if I read it correctly I could start using medium armor and be a bit more resilient in my chaotic fighting while also giving my party better initiative chances which just helps me out even more.
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