Agents of Shield: Odd vibe from series

I'm pretty sure at this point that without Clark, this show wouldn't have made it past episode three.
Part of the problem, though, has probably been things out of their control. Most of the season has felt stiff and disorganized for some reason, and I wonder if that reason is not Captain America 2. I can easily picture conversations like 'We want to do X' 'You can't do that.' 'Why not' 'Can't tell you, yet'. 'Well then our long range plan is Y' 'Sorry, can't go there' 'Why?' 'Can't tell you, plans have not firmed up'. Both TV and movies have such large lead times and yet things can change at the last minute that it might well have been a huge amount of frustration working on AoS and having to dance around what the movie-verse is doing or might be doing. Now here at the very end we have something that could have been done with greater forshadowing all along, and we have a decent Marvel-based villain group instead of 'Centipede' and 'The Clairvoyant'. Though I'm not sure why they could not have used, say, AIM as a know group this season and put them behind some of the goings-on.
Centipede and the Claravoiant were an established villain group: Hydra.

I don,t think they could have foreshadowed more without blowing the secret to Cap 2. We had all the clues to make the same guess as Colson: the Claravoiant wasn't psychic but had clearance. I was wondering if Centipede was Hydra anyway. There,s only so much you can tease without blowing a revelation.

As as I said a page back, the problem wíth SHIELD was they had to delay for six months until Cap 2 released and the show's planned dynamic kicked in. Now it has.
Now we don't have a show about one group of agents with a huge organization supporting them, and able to bail them out when things get bad. We have a show about a small group of agents, all that is left of SHIELD fighting Hydra and trying to do their job on their own. Underdogs. The show is radically more compelling. At the very least, they've gotten a second chance to win the fans as it's a very different show now.
 

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WayneLigon

Adventurer
Centipede and the Clairvoyant were an established villain group: Hydra.

Only after last episode. Before, they were just generic no-name stand-ins with no connection to the Marvel Universe.

The show is radically more compelling. At the very least, they've gotten a second chance to win the fans as it's a very different show now.

Ratings have dropped almost every episode and there was no bump from Thor or Cap 2, meaning most likely the people that went to those movies either are not and never have been 'crossovers' to the TV series, or they dropped it early on and haven't gone back. It's a good turn but at this point, I think it's just too late unless the network just makes the decision to renew the thing anyway to give it a second chance now that word has spread. I guess we could hope for a bump for tonight's episode, and see if that can help matters.

Another thing that might help the show would be to move it to a later time slot, or for Disney to loosen up the purse strings to give it some better production values and room for a superpowered regular on the team. There are dozens and dozens of characters to use. Yes, having them on the show kind of 'stamps' them for the cinematic universe (which is probably why we haven't seen too many) as far as look and feel (and possibly actor). Paxton's other partner is, I think, supposed to be Triathalon's real ID - give him those powers and use him as a replacement for Wade. Pull in, oh, the Living Lightning or Mockingbird or pull a Thunderbolts and give them a villain from their secret prison that might can go straight. Replace Skye with him or her. (Songbird would be a good call, here).
 

Nellisir

Hero
Ratings have dropped almost every episode and there was no bump from Thor or Cap 2, meaning most likely the people that went to those movies either are not and never have been 'crossovers' to the TV series, or they dropped it early on and haven't gone back. It's a good turn but at this point, I think it's just too late unless the network just makes the decision to renew the thing anyway to give it a second chance now that word has spread. I guess we could hope for a bump for tonight's episode, and see if that can help matters.
I haven't seen Cap 2 or the most recent episodes, but I can guess what's going on. This is stuff that should have happened last fall, 3 or 4 episodes in, not at the end of the first season. I agree it's really really close to being too late, and it's still possible for them to make the show just suck.

Another thing that might help the show would be... to loosen up the purse strings to give it some better production values and room for a superpowered regular on the team.
This. So much this. Honestly, I don't want Agents of Shields to be Heroes. I do want it to be Stormwatch: Team Achilles (a team of "normals" tasked with handling rogue supers, both villain and hero, but the team eventually expanded to include supers - the "not-batshit-vigilante-crazy" ones.)

There are dozens and dozens of characters to use.
Thousands. Recent interview I read said they were up to 8000 and counting in the comics. Assume 2000 on the X-Men side, that's still 6000 characters. Admittedly most of them are less famous than Bob, Agent of Hydra, but ce la vie.

Hmm. Not being a regular Avengers reader, I hadn't associated Agent Triplett and the superhero Triathalon. So in comicland, Delroy Garrett Jr is Triathalon; in tvland John Garrett is Antoine Triplett's partner/mentor (and in comicland he's some kind of cyborg?) Triplett as the new Wade makes sense.
 

Honestly, I think the time slot is hurting the show more than anything. That, and the odd scheduling they've had since their fall break (one week on, two weeks off, then back for a few weeks). I'm starting to see the same pattern that we saw with Firefly before it was canceled.

The pacing for this one is much slower than Whedon's usual fare, and the dialogue isn't up to snuff either. Maybe he's trying to tie in too much?

I do hope it picks up. Last episode was pretty good, and this show really has a lot of potential.
 

Scott DeWar

Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure
As much as I agree that this show has more potential then what its giving, that the timeline should have been a few episodes in, and many if not most other points, I am still hoping for a better story. That possibly things will pick up greatly with this new "The heroes are the underdogs" thing.
 

Centipede and the Clairvoyant were an established villain group: Hydra.
Only after last episode. Before, they were just generic no-name stand-ins with no connection to the Marvel Universe.
Which is the Catch-22: either they tease that they’re an established group and risk spoiling a blockbuster movie (and causing Nerd Rage) or they keep that subtle and hidden and make them seem unconnected (and causing Nerd Rage).
I think the show took the position of trusting the audience would stick around long enough for the reveal. A ballsy move.


Ratings have dropped almost every episode and there was no bump from Thor or Cap 2, meaning most likely the people that went to those movies either are not and never have been 'crossovers' to the TV series, or they dropped it early on and haven't gone back. It's a good turn but at this point, I think it's just too late unless the network just makes the decision to renew the thing anyway to give it a second chance now that word has spread. I guess we could hope for a bump for tonight's episode, and see if that can help matters.
Another thing that might help the show would be to move it to a later time slot,
It went from being record breaking to merely the #3 show. Last week was too soon for there to be a bump. Word-of-mouth takes some time.
Really, Neilsen ratings mean little now, as does time slot. That’s a problem for shows from 1994 not 2014. The shakiness of the first season and rating drop likely meant people just moved it from “must-watch-right-now” to “I’ll DVR and watch in a couple days”. DVRs are fifteen years old now. The success of the show will also be measured in DVD sales and how it does on streaming, as well as the buzz the next coming days.

ABC had to know going in that the first season was going to be a struggle, that things were going to be weird until the paradigm shift.

or for Disney to loosen up the purse strings to give it some better production values and room for a superpowered regular on the team. There are dozens and dozens of characters to use. Yes, having them on the show kind of 'stamps' them for the cinematic universe (which is probably why we haven't seen too many) as far as look and feel (and possibly actor).
Getting characters is likely an issue, what with even B-list characters being “dibbed”. We’re getting Iron Fist as a TV show and a Doctor Strange movie.

Time is likely as much of an issue that budget. Special FX take time as well as money, and extravagant CGI takes a long time to look good. But they don’t have that much more time to make an SFX heavy episode than a regular episode.

Paxton's other partner is, I think, supposed to be Triathalon's real ID - give him those powers and use him as a replacement for Wade.
Sorry, no. Triplett is original as far as I know. Likely created to be the “obvious” Hydra agent.

I assume you mean Ward. Unless there’s a “Wade” I’m missing.
We don’t need a replacement for Ward. Ward had a role in the show as “the muscle” when May was “the pilot”. Once she returned to Action Girl status, Ward became superfluous. I was expecting him to die, causing drama with May and Skye. During the speech between him and Skye in the closet I was taking bets with my wife regarding his fate.
Going eeeeevil works as well. Ward being villain would explain why they didn’t make him too likable. You don’t want everyone’s favourite character becoming a evil. Making him the fan favourite would just add pressure to have him redeemed, like Faith in Buffy. This also deflates some of the “Ward is bland” criticisms of the show.

Pull in, oh, the Living Lightning or Mockingbird or pull a Thunderbolts and give them a villain from their secret prison that might can go straight. Replace Skye with him or her. (Songbird would be a good call, here).
Skye is the character most people want to see replaced. I think I’d still rather have her planned story arc completed rather than see her unceremoniously written out, just so the time with her served a purpose and wasn’t wasted. Sunk cost fallacy and all.
I think the problem is the Mary Sue quality of the character, which wouldn’t be a problem with a solid actress. Chloe Bennet just isn’t convincing at doing what the writers/producers want the character to do. That will likely get better as the writers get a feel for the actress’ range.

The first season has a few established characters. In the 17 episodes we have Graviton, Blizzard, Lorelei, Agents John Garrett, Deathlok, and Victoria Hand. Plus Fury, Jasper Sitwell, and Maria Hill from the movies. But two of those are more origins than full villain appearances.
I also think they wanted to establish the dynamic between the characters and explore their backgrounds. Establish the characters before things get crazy.
Looking back, there are no real “wasted” episodes. Like Dollhouse, every episode seemed to serve some purpose in retrospect. This season is really the origin story of the show, the set-up for craziness to follow. But, unfortunately, a few episodes longer than desired. Pulling the rug-out at mid-season would have been better, but they were anchored to the date of Cap, set years in advance.

I’d would ike to see more B-villains and threats, but I can see why they avoided that, wanting to establish the SHIELD status quo as much as possible before taking that away. They have seasons to deal with villains-of-the-week but only a few months to set-up how far SHIELD could fall, all that they’re losing.

I agree that it would be nice to have someone with powers on the team. They do need the token super hero to remind everyone that it’s taking place in a fantasy world. A redeemed Deathlok would be the obvious choice, and create the most interesting tension between characters. I’m sure there’s a few others they could think of: Marvel has no shortage of B and C-list characters they need to use to avoid trademark lapses.


Still, I'm always amused by people's definition of "suck". SHIELD isn't amazing, and arguably isn't good, but there's sooooo many worse shows out there. If Smallville (aka character continuity, what continuity??) can go ten seasons, SHIELD can go more.
 

Nellisir

Hero
Sorry, no. Triplett is original as far as I know. Likely created to be the “obvious” Hydra agent.
The name seems to be a real tip of the hat, though. Triplett? Really? And as far as it being the "real" name of the "real" (comicland) Triathalon character, well, no version of Deathlok has been named Mike Peterson either.
 

Richards

Legend
We don’t need a replacement for Ward. Ward had a role in the show as “the muscle” when May was “the pilot”. Once she returned to Action Girl status, Ward became superfluous. I was expecting him to die, causing drama with May and Skye. During the speech between him and Skye in the closet I was taking bets with my wife regarding his fate. Going eeeeevil works as well. Ward being villain would explain why they didn’t make him too likable. You don’t want everyone’s favourite character becoming evil.
At this point, I'm not entirely convinced that Ward's gone to the evil side. A more likely explanation (to me, anyway), is that Ward was sent in as a mole to Hydra. With his ties (and presumed loyalty) to Agent Garrett, he has a dedicated Hydra agent willing to vouch for him. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out during tonight's episode (which is an hour later than normal - what the heck?) that he faked shooting Agent Hand and the two SHIELD agents escorting Garrett to the Fridge.

I should hopefully find out in the next hour and a half if my theory holds any water. But regardless, it also seems like Triplett is a built-in replacement for Ward, either in the short term or on a more permanent basis.

Johnathan
 


Nellisir

Hero
I wonder if my opinion is colored by the fact that I binge watched this? Makes the pacing really different different.
Probably makes a big difference. I just heard today that people who binge-watch a show rate it more favorably than those who watch episodically. I haven't binge-watched many, primarily Lie to Me over lunches and spare moments when I was in school, and watching it that way allowed me to see the character and the actor evolve into each other. The character and his portrayal were much more nuanced towards the end, and there were ticks and traits that had built up that were cool. I don't think I'd have recognized them as easily if I'd watched it slower.
 

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