What's this about a creature you can see and are talking to obtaining surprise?
Its decision to attack is what triggers initiative. At that point (before the attack is resolved - this happens on the monsters turn) you also determine surprise - and you're aware of the Monster so there is no surprise.
As stated before, that is one way to do it sure. But then you run into multiple potential problems that I dislike having to deal with, especially when dealing with them also includes solutions that are houserules anyway. So why not just have 1 houserule that solves the whole thing from the start?
Also, if the party is aware of the monster as a threat, why aren't they already in combat? This whole discussion (from what I understand) is about surprise and how the game functions when you're not aware of a threat and an act would begin combat. My houserule resolves that act (whatever it may be) before initiative and surprise is assigned so that everyone understands what's going on.
Your houserule creates the awful scenario where a wary character with sword drawn has to sit there and get smacked in the face by a monster he is fully aware of before getting a chance to react. All on account of the DM declaring an attack first. Heck the monster may even surprise him! That's madness to me. I would sure as hell be the first to scream 'I attack!' In your games to make myself immune to surprise and grant myself a free 'turn 0' before combat.
Incorrect. You don't understand how the houserule functions, which is why you're arriving at this conclusion. And it's not on account of me declaring an attack first. The discussion again is about surprise, either for the players or for the NPC's and how the transition goes into combat. I prefer to resolve the event first and then roll initiative and so on. I wish you would ask questions instead of having a knee jerk reaction and calling it madness. You don't even understand how it functions in practice... It's not a full turn, it's 1 attack (if that is what prompts combat). You screaming I attack is fine if that's what you want to do. However, the rest of the group might not enjoy having someone attack everything that moves at all times. Also, again, we're talking about being unaware of a threat and surprise. Specifically how that then translates into combat. You keep posting things like this which doesn't make sense within that context. Less knee jerk reaction, more reading please.
What 'problem' are your houserules on surprise, combat and initiative trying to adress?
The houserule is only related to surprise and the transition from the triggering event into initiative. The houserule doesn't change anything else. Some of the problems off hand would be:
1. Initiative being called for no discernible reason as far as the players are concerned. (breaks immersion, spoils events for the players themselves, causes confusion, etc..)
2. Players being told they are surprised during round 1 for no reason they understand (or in fact no mechanical reason) because the person initiating combat (for example), in other words causing the surprise, has not yet acted or had a turn. (players questioning what's happening, confusion, having to tell them they can't do anything until the triggering creature has had a turn, assigning surprise for no actual reason since nothing has happened, etc..)
3. Players being told they can't do anything until the person causing surprise has acted. (losing any relevant effects within round 1, potentially ruining the plans of the party, skipping initiative down to the triggering creature, removing options from the players, etc..)
4. Narrative issues because the person initiating combat might be required to perform certain actions for story purposes, which gets you into simply giving the NPC / PC the first position in the initiative. (story line events can be disrupted, PC plans disrupted,
I mean this is just off-hand, I rule from scenario to scenario. An example scenario would be:
The party is moving on a trail in the woods, they enter the kill zone of a goblin ambush without noticing the goblins since they are hidden (either passive or active perception failed to beat stealth). The goblin leader then fires an arrow at one of the PC's to initiate the attack (or yells out in goblin, or whatever prompts combat. Could be many things, such as triggering a trap. But let's say for the sake of the example it's an attack.) I would resolve the attack first, then determine who hadn't noticed the goblins before the triggering event (the attack) to apply surprise as appropriate, and finally I would have everyone roll initiative and start at the top of the initiative order.
Note of course that the reverse is also true in the case of the party lying in ambush. They would get to plan out their ambush, decide who would trigger combat via an attack, yell, triggering a trap or whatever else and then continue from there per the RAW.
So what happens if we go by the RAW only? First, if the triggering event is a goblin triggering a trap / making an attack that would meet your hostile intent requirement so you would roll initiative before that happens. That means that if the goblin triggering the trap / making an attack is low on the initiative order. The party is presumably surprised for no reason they understand since nothing has happened. The trap / attack that was the "hostile intent" and the "triggering event" doesn't actually follow the narrative. If it's a yell then the problems aren't really present since you can yell outside of combat. For me, telling people "ok roll initiative" is less fun and interesting as narrating the event, "an arrow flies out of the bushes at you", and then asking for initiative from the party. At least that way the players start immediately talking about what the plan is vs "why are we rolling initiative?", "why are we surprised?", "Why don't I get to play my turn?", etc..
