D&D 5E Allowing more open spell lists?

[TRD]

In my new 5E campaign I am thinking about making the following adjustments:

1. Allowing PC's to choose from any classes spell lists for their cantrips, so for example the cleric for his 3 cantrips may choose: guidance, sacred flame and then acid splash

2. Allowing PC's to choose spells from other classes lists but keeping divine and arcane separate. With classes such as Bard, Warlock, Sorcerer they could create their spell list from all arcane classes but would be limited by the number of spells in the list. So the Bard has 11 spells in their spell list in the PHB, they could create this list from every arcane class.

Can anyone think of any significant issues, balance or otherwise this would create?

 

[The Myopic Sniper]

I think your biggest issue is with niche protection for the half casters.

Off hand, if you are including the Paladin list in with "divine" this would give Clerics the Paladin signature smite spells way before Paladins of the same level could dream of casting them. Although the Bard's "Magical Secrets" feature ends up doing the same thing so maybe it isn't an issue, but it might end up making War Domain Clerics stronger at doing the Paladin thing than Paladins are.

Similarly, Hunter's Mark might end up trampling too much on the Ranger class (and maybe the Avenger Paladn) if it ended up on a Druid or a Nature Domain cleric, but probably not the extent of the Paladin and Cleric situation..

The other issue might be with other casters picking up Eldritch Blast. Lacking invocations, they won't be able to really make it sing like a Warlock, but if all the casters can cast it, it does tread a bit on a signature Warlock ability.

 

[sithramir]

Bard would be overpowered if access to all wizard spells. With this they would make them nearly pointless.

They could have all the best spells with skills, expertise, armor, extra attacks, etc

 

[SilentBoba]

I think if you envision more open spell lists, you essentially have to reinvent the classes accordingly, and probably remove most of them because they'd be redundant.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

I really liked the 2nd Edition approach where divine spells were divided in to spheres, and the wizard spells still had schools. Then specific classes, or specialty classes, had access to specific groups of spells. For example, rangers had access to divine spell in the animal and plant spheres. There were also some ranger only spells. Some classes had 'minor' access to some spheres, which allowed them to use spells of level 1-3 in that sphere.

The real question I would ask would be 'why?' If there's a logical reason based on the way magic works in your world, then go for it.

Allowing a class like the bard to use any arcane spell sounds OK to me, but I also don't grant characters spells just for raising a level. They have to find them. That gives you, as DM, a method for controlling what spells they have access to. Of course, it can also have an impact on what the NPCs have access to as well, because if an NPC is using a given spell, then there's a possibility the PCs may get at their spellbook eventually. Even with Sorcerers and Warlocks you can still limit what spells they have access to at a given time.

Another thing to keep in mind is that with multiclassing, you can essentially get to the same point, it just takes more time.

Ilbranteloth

 

[Li Shenron]

In my new 5E campaign I am thinking about making the following adjustments:

1. Allowing PC's to choose from any classes spell lists for their cantrips, so for example the cleric for his 3 cantrips may choose: guidance, sacred flame and then acid splash

2. Allowing PC's to choose spells from other classes lists but keeping divine and arcane separate. With classes such as Bard, Warlock, Sorcerer they could create their spell list from all arcane classes but would be limited by the number of spells in the list. So the Bard has 11 spells in their spell list in the PHB, they could create this list from every arcane class.

Can anyone think of any significant issues, balance or otherwise this would create?

Spell lists are already less separate than older edition, when you take feats into account.

Niche protection is generally important, and that's the reason for keeping spells lists separate. If you lower niche protection, just try to do that equally to all character classes, and you'll be fine.

You can consider different ways to gradually lessen the spells list separation, for example extending those feats to higher level spells.

Also note that there is not really a practical distinction between arcane and divine in 5e, at least IIRC.

 

[MoutonRustique]

I'm curious to know what you feel would happen if the wizard had access to all magic.

They are supposed to be the masters of magic, and the bard ridicules the idea that healing is divine only.

Your thoughts?

 

[MoutonRustique]

<< double post >>

 

[The Myopic Sniper]

The one nice thing about giving Wizards healing is that it spreads the support/healing/buffing role out a bit more equally among casters so that non-Wizard casters can use their slots on more "fun" spell effects rather than saving them in case someone gets horribly injured.

Nice for everyone except the player playing the Wizard ironically because instead of his big showy effects and battle controller like spells he is going to be forced into using some of his power doing maintenance duties for the party. Niche protection cuts both ways.

I kind of agree with the previous poster who said that you might be better off rewriting or eliminating most of the spell casting classes and just have a couple of new spellcasting classes differentiated by flavor or casting mechanic, but using largely the same mechanics if you are going to have a lot of dipping into the same spell list. In 5E that is fairly easy to set up though without being over or underpowered.

 

[The_Gneech]

Sorta makes the bard's spell secrets ability kinda superfluous if every spellcaster already has it. I don't really see it "breaking," anything, but I don't see that it adds much, either, just sorta dilutes the spellcasting classes.

-TG