D&D 5E Alternate caster stats

[Clint_L]

Love this concept. One potential problem with making con one of the options is that it is probably always the best option in most campaigns, unless they are very combat light and exploration or role play heavy.

I don’t mind that this would mostly help Sorcerers and Warlocks, plus Clerics. Those first two could use a boost anyway and I don’t see swapping Wisdom for Charisma helping Clerics much.

 

[Clint_L]

Deleted

 

[Fanaelialae]

That's a reasonable point and one i didn't think of. I've never played a multiclassed caster though - how overpowered it it likely to be, in the worst case? Just eyeballing it, it'd seem to me you'd give up just as much or more in spell power than you'd likely get back in AC or whatever, especially at alternate levels when you're a full spell level behind the single-class caster. I mean, at my table our resident powergamer has a moon druid with one level of monk for the AC in wildshape, and that's probably as big an exploit of this sort as you're likely to find. We haven't found it terribly overpowering (or at least it wouldn't be if the DM stuck to the actual wording of Barkskin rather than letting it grant +6 to armour class on top of the wild shape AC and unarmoured defence, but eh, GMPCs, what are ya gonna do...?)

That's the thing. I don't really know what the most optimized combination an optimizer might conceive under this system. Yeah, giving up casting power is generally a big concern for casters, so it may be that this isn't too OP.

Something that could potentially be an issue would be something like a cleric/paladin, where you dip paladin for smite and then go cleric for the (much) faster spell slot acquisition. You'd be behind on casting, but barely behind a single classed cleric in terms of slots, and the ability to smite anything and everything could readily make up for it. And you'd still have the flexibility of using spells if you want to, almost as well as a full cleric. Is that OP? IDK.

The reason I suggested considering it as a bennie for single classes characters is because I'm quite confident that this change won't break anything in that scenario. Opening it up to multiclass characters? Much harder to say. By the time you realize you have a problem arising from it, it may be too late to put the genie back in the bottle.

 

[humble minion]

Something that could potentially be an issue would be something like a cleric/paladin, where you dip paladin for smite and then go cleric for the (much) faster spell slot acquisition. You'd be behind on casting, but barely behind a single classed cleric in terms of slots, and the ability to smite anything and everything could readily make up for it. And you'd still have the flexibility of using spells if you want to, almost as well as a full cleric. Is that OP? IDK.

People do that with the existing Cha casters - sorcerers and warlocks - now though. I'm not a fan personally, because all the 'builds' of that sort you see are all about maxing out smite power and very little about how your dedicated paladin decides to make a Hexblade pact or whatever, but the possibility has already been explored.

Your point is a fair one though. I'm far from a great character optimiser, and I'm sure there's exploitable edge cases that I've missed or hadn't thought of.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I did it for my Eberron campaign, and which ability score was primary was based upon the subclass the Cleric or Wizard had. So Knowledge, Arcana & Forge Clerics used INT; Trickery, Light & Tempest Clerics used CHA; Life, Nature, Grave and War Clerics used WIS.

Then Evocation, Illusion, & Divination Wizards used INT; Conjuration, Enchantment & Transmutation Wizards used CHA; and Abjuration & Necromancy Wizards used WIS.

Not all schools/domains aligned perfectly to the most logically assigned stat, but most did. A Knowledge Cleric using INT made perfect sense... a Transmutation Wizard using CHA not so much. But I wanted a relatively even distribution, so I placed them where I did. But it ultimately didn't really matter, since only one or two of them ended up being used through character creation anyway.

 

[CreamCloud0]

ok, con sorcerer is based, but no stat warlock? so what, are they just gonna be 15-25% behind in accuracy compared to everyone else in the game? how would that work?

i could see warlock having a different casting stat based on what patron or pact they take, i don't know if to leave them without a caster stat for their first two levels or just default to CHA for them before their choice, or if the variable casting stat would just be even more exploitable.

 

[TwoSix]

Just have the stats not impact spellcasting at all, and use proficiency modifier instead. Spell attack rolls are +(2xProf), and DCs are 8+(2xProf).

You can do the same for attacks, too, and relegate stats to modifying skills and saves.

 

[Horwath]

Just have the stats not impact spellcasting at all, and use proficiency modifier instead. Spell attack rolls are +(2xProf), and DCs are 8+(2xProf).

You can do the same for attacks, too, and relegate stats to modifying skills and saves.

had a similar idea while back:

Using abilities for only ability checks.

Yes, an idea to remove most effects from abilities so the only affect ability checks/skills. Have abilities only have mostly RP value. all combat is based on your level. In all other aspects of the game; attacks, saves, damage and DC's, ability mod would be replaced by your proficiency bonus...

www.enworld.org

 

[TwoSix]

had a similar idea while back:

Using abilities for only ability checks.

Yes, an idea to remove most effects from abilities so the only affect ability checks/skills. Have abilities only have mostly RP value. all combat is based on your level. In all other aspects of the game; attacks, saves, damage and DC's, ability mod would be replaced by your proficiency bonus...

www.enworld.org

More aggressive than my own house rule, but certainly workable. It's mostly a matter of feel as to how much mechanical weight you want the stats to bear.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

i could see warlock having a different casting stat based on what patron or pact they take, i don't know if to leave them without a caster stat for their first two levels or just default to CHA for them before their choice, or if the variable casting stat would just be even more exploitable.

that could work pretty well for 5e where warlocks get their subclass at 1st level, but uh...that's not what the guy suggested.

Just have the stats not impact spellcasting at all, and use proficiency modifier instead. Spell attack rolls are +(2xProf), and DCs are 8+(2xProf).

You can do the same for attacks, too, and relegate stats to modifying skills and saves.

well then now the attack/DC scaling of warlocks is out of wack with everyone else. they'll be behind everyone else by 5-10% until level 13, then edge out past everyone by 5% at 17.