Ampersand: Martial Rituals in Martial Power 2

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

My biggest problem with these is that it doubles down the old bind- do I spend a feat on combat power, or on a fun skill ability? Siloing is good. Feats kind of fail at siloing.

Why problem? You pay with one feat, and you can learn anymartial practice - provided you find a source for it. One feat against the possibility of dozens for the different benefits granted by feats.

I think this is an interesting approach. The general idea is abilities you can pick up without leveling or spending feat slots seems very good. The only practice that they now need to add is something to quickly learn languages.

 

[ferratus]

I also think practiced study will have to be something that extends skill powers, like the new skill utilities. To that end:

Alter Ego - Works for me as it is a particularly precise disguise (+5 to skill checks) but it isn't particularly exciting. If Alter Ego was a completely different identity (Batman/Bruce Wayne), it would be something above and beyond what bluff with a disguise kit could do. Different reputation, different contacts, perhaps even different skills for each identity. Plus it would explain the loss of healing surges, given that you are burning the candle at both ends leading your double life. Yeah, +5 to a skill check is lame for a practiced study with so much potential bound up in its name.

Precise Forgery - I don't really understand why this isn't just a skill check, though I suppose you could say you are investing in carving official seals, getting expensive parchment or ink etc. The DC should also be based on the value of the forgery, not arbitrarily on who happens to look at it. When does the healing surge loss wear off? Can you rest and get it back, or is gone for as long as the object is existent? Weird. I would also use bluff for the skill check though I could see the case for Thievery or Diplomacy.

Speak Without Words - This one works just fine. Sure you could do the same thing by rolling multiple insight rolls, but it is automatically successful and and lets the party get on with it. I can't see anyone using it if there is someone in the party with comprehend languages though.

The central mechanic of the practiced study is strange too. What martial character is going to give up his healing surges? Has anyone ever known a warlord, fighter, or rogue who needed less healing surges? For that reason alone I think it will go over like a lead balloon at my table.

 

[Nikosandros]

My initial reactions:

1. They are more exclusive than rituals since you need to actually have a martial class to use martial practices, whereas anyone with training in Arcana or Religion can take the Ritual Caster feat. This strikes me as unnecessarily restrictive.

Indeed, it is quite strange and I'm not sure that I like it.

 

[Shroomy]

I think that one of the more interesting parts of this new sub-system is that it costs half as much to learn if a fellow PC teaches you.

 

[avin]

What? Why should somebody spend a HEALING SURGE while trying to communicate with somebody else??????????????????????

- Hey buddy, just a sec... (immolate himself with a dagger)... *ughs* ok, let's talk...

And then Wizards is pissed when people say there's no roleplaying on Fourth Edition. What's the in game explanation?

Why do I keep getting this feeling Wotc is spending its resources only with the mechanical aspect of powers?

WTB more fluff, PST.

 

[FireLance]

What? Why should somebody spend a HEALING SURGE while trying to communicate with somebody else??????????????????????

From the humourous banging of the head against the wall during the first few unsuccessful, misunderstood communication attempts, of course. Plus, it's physically and mentally draining.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Agreed.

To work well, these need to allow you to do something you simply cannot do with a regular skill check. If that's the case, then its basically just an extra way to use a skill that you can gain by spending a feat. Which is cool by me.

there are things skills wont let you use, but these were low level example read the part about swimming underwater again...

Alter Ego: Mixed feelings. Its good that disguising yourself costs materials and so on, but I'd have allowed it with a simple makeup kit and a bluff check. I'd want specialized training that costs a feat to grant you something special. Like maybe if regular disguises couldn't imitate specific people, but this training regimen permitted you to do so. I guess this training lets you disguise an ally, which is cool.

would you let your male eladrin 5'10 make a skill check to disguse himself as the female dragon born 6'1 in your party? with only a simple make up kit?

What? Why should somebody spend a HEALING SURGE while trying to communicate with somebody else??????????????????????

- Hey buddy, just a sec... (immolate himself with a dagger)... *ughs* ok, let's talk...

And then Wizards is pissed when people say there's no roleplaying on Fourth Edition. What's the in game explanation?

Why do I keep getting this feeling Wotc is spending its resources only with the mechanical aspect of powers?

did you read the artical??? it is an advanced drawn out game of sharades...and I have seen plenty of party games tire out there players...now imagin in stead of a fun game it was a stressful first moment...

 

[deganawida]

Create a disguise:I would rule this as a simple Bluff vs Insight check, or perhaps skill challenge if particularly important or involved.

I read this one completely differently. I think this is along the lines of Batman's "Matches Malone" disguise, where no one could tell the difference between the original Matches and Batman. Batman even spent time building up Matches' history to include new, fake stuff after Matches' death.

Basically, I understand this ritual as an extremely complex and taxing disguise that renders the user as someone completely different, and is so convincing that no one can tell the difference. It's quite common in a lot of fiction for this to occur, and they authors always go into detail about how much time the disguised hero spent getting his disguise set up.

 

[Cadfan]

there are things skills wont let you use, but these were low level example read the part about swimming underwater again...

I saw. Like I said, I don't dislike all of them.

would you let your male eladrin 5'10 make a skill check to disguse himself as the female dragon born 6'1 in your party? with only a simple make up kit?

Would you allow that with a makeup kit plus this feat? I wouldn't unless the player could describe to me, in game, how his disguise worked. And if the explanation made sense I'd probably allow it with or without the feat. The feat doesn't seem to add value.

 

[avin]

did you read the artical??? it is an advanced drawn out game of sharades...and I have seen plenty of party games tire out there players...now imagin in stead of a fun game it was a stressful first moment...

Sorry, there is no way I could agree that people would lose a healing surge for that. Could you provide an example? Where's Wizards example?

I read the article. Yes. Mechanic? Check. Fluff? "Go figure yourself, DM, we have another crunch to do".

It's not that stressful make a people who doesn't now your language understand what you want. Try it someday (clarifying: not my intention it sounds like an order, it should sound like a gentle suggestion).

Yet again, in my opinion, Wizards is focusing only on crunch.

A "roleplaying" chapter won't solve the problem, dudes, you need to backup good crunch with good fluff.