D&D 5E An issue with the Tavern Brawler feat

[Timotheos55000]

The feat says:
[The section on improvised weapons says:

In many cases, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a dub. At the DM's option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.​

The way I'm going to rule it is that it's ALWAYS a D4 if you are using the Tavern Brawler feat. but, being proficient, you get your PB to hit. If you want to use it as whatever the hell it looks like, you'd better be proficient in it.

So, yeah, Tavern Brawler Druid can pick up Fighter's Greatsword and use it proficiently - as a d4 slashing weapon. Or he can used it unproficiently as a 2d6 weapon. So, essentially, Tavern Brawler does mean any 1d4 weapon can be used proficiently without penalty...

I do not understand how someone can read the entry for Improvised Weapons and come to that conclusion in regards to the Tavern Brawler feat. If the DM decides that a candlestick is like a club, the candlestick IS a club and gains the club's stats. At which point it is no longer truly an improvised weapon, it is a weapon of the corresponding type. The point where I see TB coming into play is when it comes to IWs that do not resemble any other standard weapon, such as a body or body part. In no way does it say that it gives proficiency to an object that resembles a weapon if you dont have the corresponding weapon's proficiency.

 

[BryonD]

I do not understand how someone can read the entry for Improvised Weapons and come to that conclusion in regards to the Tavern Brawler feat. If the DM decides that a candlestick is like a club, the candlestick IS a club and gains the club's stats. At which point it is no longer truly an improvised weapon, it is a weapon of the corresponding type. The point where I see TB coming into play is when it comes to IWs that do not resemble any other standard weapon, such as a body or body part. In no way does it say that it gives proficiency to an object that resembles a weapon if you dont have the corresponding weapon's proficiency.

Agreed with one clarification.
For the highly rare character who is not proficient with clubs (is there such thing?) and yet does have TB, then the candlestick would STILL qualify as an improvised weapon.

 

[Timotheos55000]

Sorcerers and Wizards don't have proficiency in clubs, so they'd still view them as candlesticks and use a d4. At which point the Tavern Brawler feat would allow them to gain their proficiency and other bonuses gained from the feat.

The interesting question that then comes to mind is if TB changes the candlestick to a club for a class such as fighter, does it change the mechanic designation of the item from Improvised to Standard weapon? If it doesn't a fighter with TB gets to use the candlestick as a club, and make a grapple attempt afterward. An alternative ruling is that the object is no longer an improvised weapon and the fighter would not get the grapple attempt. In the later case, I'd say that the fighter could make an Unarmed Attack while wielding a weapon and still get to make the grapple attempt. It isnt exactly RAW, but I think it serves the intent of using a weapon in a way that isnt intended. The UA only gains a d4 for damage but the TB Fighter, or any class, would still get the PB and grapple attempt.

The image I'm 'seeing' in this scenario is a character wielding a weapon could decide to not attack with the blade but with their fist but still holding the weapon's grip. While they would technically be armed, they're not technically using the weapon for the attack roll, but instead their fist.

 

[aramis erak]

Regarding the post above, If you go this route, then what is the point of having picked up the weapon at all? The tavern brawler is already proficient in unarmed and already does d4 damage.

The reason is, primarily, to shift the damage type from bludgeoning, and/or to be able to hurl it.

Pick up that wine bottle, and throw it... sure, it's only a d4, with limited range, but you're still proficient with it as a tavern brawler...
Or the torch - sure, you're still only doing d4, but now your d4 is 1d4 Flame.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The Hatter looked at Alice sternly. "When is a raven like a writing desk?" he demanded.

"Is that a riddle? I quite like riddles," said Alice. She puzzled it over in her mind. "When is a raven like a writing desk....?" After several minutes, she had to confess to herself that she could not think of any similarities between them.

"Give up?" asked the hatter, dunking the doormouse in his cup of tea like a buscuit.

"Yes, very well, tell me, when is a raven like a writing desk?"

"When both are used as an improvised club by a character with the tavern brawler feat!"

Alice blinked numbly. "I'm afraid I don't know what you're talking about."

The Hatter blinked back. "Yes, I'm afraid of that, too. Terrified, in fact."
​

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Oh, I see. But, if you want to encourage that style of play, it can be done in game.

For instance, Tavern Brawler really comes in handy in towns that don't allow murder-hobos to walk around armed to the teeth.

Really, why should such towns exist? You have guys who can kill you barehanded, guys who can kill you with bat poo, guys who kill you by turning into bears, and guys that can kill you with a prayer. Maybe one day we can get guys who kill you with their mind. The guy with the sword is the least of your problems, since at least he'll be obvious about it when its time to throw down. If there's ever a place for open carry, its in D&D.

 

[Rune]

Really, why should such towns exist? You have guys who can kill you barehanded, guys who can kill you with bat poo, guys who kill you by turning into bears, and guys that can kill you with a prayer. Maybe one day we can get guys who kill you with their mind. The guy with the sword is the least of your problems, since at least he'll be obvious about it when its time to throw down. If there's ever a place for open carry, its in D&D.

Well, in games which assume that those guys are a lot less common than their proportional representation in a typical party of PCs would suggest (so, at least some), cutting back on the weaponry walking around town can go a long way toward keeping the peace. Or at least keeping the violence nonlethal.

Also, if the game assumes intricate finger gestures for somatic components, spellcasters become less obviously dangerous when their fingers are bound. Of course, it's impossible to spot a spellcaster based on appearance, nowadays, but that's another matter.

 

[Cernor]

Also, if the game assumes intricate finger gestures for somatic components, spellcasters become less obviously dangerous when their fingers are bound. Of course, it's impossible to spot a spellcaster based on appearance, nowadays, but that's another matter.

Where open carry isn't permitted, it's easy to spot spellcasters! They're the ones wearing government-issued mittens!

 

[CapnZapp]

Oh, I see. But, if you want to encourage that style of play, it can be done in game.

For instance, Tavern Brawler really comes in handy in towns that don't allow murder-hobos to walk around armed to the teeth.

Sory, but almost all character classes know magic and don't need teeth to murder-hobo those murderous hobos.

Sometimes this discussion feels like it discusses real bar brawls, when in the context of a D&D game you're only penalizing barbarians, some fighters and rogues.

If those towns of you that confiscate weaponry don't also break the fingers and pluck out the eyes of those with no weaponry to confiscate, then it's much simpler to play a spellcaster, since then you don't need the feat to circumvent the restriction.

To be fun tavern brawler need to do more when actually tavern brawling than up your damage from 1 to 1d4, since your arcane buddy still do 1d10 with her cantrips, teeth or no teeth.

 

[SkidAce]

[MENTION=67]Rune[/MENTION] explained it.

Many of us are likely looking at it from the demographics of our campaigns.

I.e. there are not enough spellcasters around to make a normal tavern worry about putting mittens on them. sure there are tales of such...etc.