An Open Letter to Fantasy Flight and Cubicle 7 -- Cut the "Foreplay" and Give Us the Good Stuff

[Scars Unseen]

So what you're really saying is that if I want a "full Star Wars experience" using FF's rules, I'm FORCED to buy all three sets. Gee, that $30 I spent on Savage Worlds deluxe and any of the dozen excellent fan mods for Star Wars is looking better all the time.

More and more it feels to me like Fantasy Flight is missing out on a substantial opportunity cost. Hearing that they're taking the same content release approach as The One Ring makes me never want to buy the game.

Now granted, Cubicle 7 and Fantasy Flight are more than welcome to manage their business however they wish. All I know is that they've missed a dramatic opportunity to make me a die hard, loyal fan of their work through what I see as a mismanagement to their approach to releasing "core" content.

Allow me to describe a game that is designed to handle Magic wielding knights with laser swords, gun toting thieves, and soldiers and pilots warring over the fate of a galaxy within the span of a single book: generic. The WotC games had little going for it other than a well known core mechanic and the Star Wars license. D20 is just plain bad at emulating Star Wars(or, in my opinion, anything other than D&D's own unique spin on fantasy without severe tweaking). And as much as people like to wax nostalgic over the WEG version of the game, EotE seems to be better at emulating the specific slice of Star Wars that it focuses on. That's what happens when you devote and entire 400+ page book to a game focused on a style of play rather than looking at every possible style of play and trying to cram it all into a single game.

Frankly, we're talking quality vs quantity, and EotE's got quality in spades. I'm actually more interested in Age of Rebellion, personally, but EotE has me confident that FFG is taking the time to do things right, and I am fully expecting AoR to be the best Rebels vs Empire game out there when it does come out.

 

[TrippyHippy]

You mean the way that made him buckets full of money?

Say what you want about midi-chlorians, from a business perspective they were extremely successful, and the I'm guessing that most everybody reading this thread has paid money to see them in one way or another.

And FFG is making business decisions too. They're very good at managing licensed properties, and they know what they're doing. I'm guessing they know that individual books get fewer customers as the line progresses, so they're saving the big guns last. (In other words if they released Jedi first and Scoundrels second, they'd sell a lot less of the Scoundrels book than the way their doing it.)

And since it is a business decisions, if you don't like it, the best thing you can do is vote with your wallet.

In the aftermath of The Phantom Menace, the Star Wars brand (in terms of toys, games, etc) plummeted in sales. They recovered a little as the other films were released, but they never recovered the universal appeal of the original Trilogy. The reality is that the Prequels generated a few new vocal fans, but the overall impact was a loss.

One could make an analogy to a certain edition of a certain fantasy RPG, but I won't do that....

 

[Remathilis]

At the risk of making a very generalized statement, I just realized how funny it is that so many Star Wars fans are eager to disown the prequels, and yet get so upset about the exclusion of full-on Jedi Knights from a game about the OT.
... Can you really fault FFG for ignoring the prequels as much as most fans do?

The problems with the prequels typically come down to acting (Anakin/Padme's non-chemistry) or divergence from established canon (midichlorians). I can't even fault them for the childish humor because there is horrible moments of that in the OT. However, it did establish some awesome elements as well: Jedi in their prime. podracing. the Separatists. the Clone Wars. Battle Droids. Dozens of amazing new alien species. The fleshing out of the Sith (and hell, even that name having real meaning in the movies). Order 66. Wookiee land battles. There are a lot of things in the PT I'd hate to lose.

 

[Remathilis]

Allow me to describe a game that is designed to handle Magic wielding knights with laser swords, gun toting thieves, and soldiers and pilots warring over the fate of a galaxy within the span of a single book: generic.

Allow me a different word: Complete. Something RPG makers in the new century seems to be getting away from.

 

[Morrus]

In the aftermath of The Phantom Menace, the Star Wars brand (in terms of toys, games, etc) plummeted in sales.

That's an unusual statement! I haven't heard that one before; could you share your source? From everything I heard in news articles and the like, Star Wars merchandise skyrocketted after the prequels, and has done since. It had a dry patch (in as much as Star Wars can have a dry patch) in the decade preceding The Phantom Menace.

While I have many criticisms of the prequels, a lack of mechandise sales isn't one of them.

 

[alien270]

I get what you're saying - they moved to acrobatic choreography in the prequels, which was different to the style in the OT.

For me, though - the RotJ fight between Luke and Vader is far more vivid than any other in the six movies. When it comes down to it, good moviemaking isn't about acrobatics. That fight has something else to it.

Oh, I absolutely agree 100%. The RotJ fight has emotional underpinnings brought to the forefront partially because the viewer isn't distracted by flashy acrobats. But that fight also just carries a lot more weight in general. It's a crucial moment because Luke succumbs to anger (to his advantage in the fight), composes himself to resist the lure of the dark side (unlike his father), and is ultimately about him trying to reignite that last spark of good in Anakin. It's a VERY personal fight.

Granted the Obi-Wan/Anakin fight in RotS was personal as well, but it still didn't carry the same weight because the damage was already done. Anakin had already fully succumbed to the dark side, and Obi-Wan was in no danger of doing so. While Obi-Wan had to struggle with killing/defeating the best friend he had, it was still basically just a grim task that had to be done, with no real chance at redemption for Anakin (you know, aside from the fact that Obi-Wan left him for dead, allowing his son to redeem him 20 years later).

Heck, I enjoy the Cloud City fight more than most of the prequel fights, if nothing else than because the lighting in that scene was used to incredible effect.

Allow me to describe a game that is designed to handle Magic wielding knights with laser swords, gun toting thieves, and soldiers and pilots warring over the fate of a galaxy within the span of a single book: generic. The WotC games had little going for it other than a well known core mechanic and the Star Wars license. D20 is just plain bad at emulating Star Wars(or, in my opinion, anything other than D&D's own unique spin on fantasy without severe tweaking). And as much as people like to wax nostalgic over the WEG version of the game, EotE seems to be better at emulating the specific slice of Star Wars that it focuses on. That's what happens when you devote and entire 400+ page book to a game focused on a style of play rather than looking at every possible style of play and trying to cram it all into a single game.

Frankly, we're talking quality vs quantity, and EotE's got quality in spades. I'm actually more interested in Age of Rebellion, personally, but EotE has me confident that FFG is taking the time to do things right, and I am fully expecting AoR to be the best Rebels vs Empire game out there when it does come out.

+1

Actually, it just so happens that I never bought a single Saga book because, upon looking through it, it was just too similar to D&D and wasn't a very good expression of the Star Wars universe. EotE, partial though it might be, succeeds very well in that department (in my opinion).

 

[Scars Unseen]

No and that isn't even close to what I am saying. Star Wars has a lot of other elements but those things are common in other Space Opera books, TV Shows, and movies. George Lucas borrowed ideas from a lot of different places with Jedi being his most original idea. Remove the Jedi from Star Wars and you get typical Space Opera setting which can be still awesome like Firefly is awesome. The Jedi idea is what really sets it apart. I don't see people making a religion based off of Han Solo.

On the other hand, what happens when you add the Jedi? You have a space opera plus a few Errol Flynn action sequences and a bit of hand waving. Or game breaking super powers. Depends on whether the game is aiming for Lucas' Jedi or Troy Denning's. Either way, it's really nothing original. But then very little is.

Now here's the thing I don't get. FFG isn't cutting out the Jedi. They are merely taking the time and page space necessary to do the job right, rather than pushing out a bog standard all encompassing RPG whose only stand-out feature is that it is licensed. If you want a generic game system that has the word "Jedi" pasted in it, you already have that. It's called Saga Edition. Why would anyone want FFG to water down the game design just so that it can do what other existing games do just as badly as the existing games do them?

The Jedi are coming. Rebels vs Empire is coming. EotE has me convinced that they will be amazing when they get here. I'm willing to wait for amazing.

 

[Remus Lupin]

Morrus, apparently the only scenes you ever saw of Jedi in Star Wars were those featuring Mace Windu. And if that's the case, I guess I can see your perspective. But if you've seen all six movies in their entirety and you don't think that the Jedi are a) not all about Drizzt with Purple Light Sabers b) deeply rooted in an interesting amalgam of the warrior/monk archetype and c) really the only genuinely distinctive thing that Star Wars has that other Space Operas don't, then I think you've missed out on most of what's interesting about the Jedi.

But since you're so insistent that there is more to Star Wars then that which is unique, by all means, I'd like to hear it.

EDIT: Ah, I see you answered it above. And again I'll note that all of those things are great, but really, most have an established placed in prior Space Opera (which Star Wars totally didn't establish, but did update). I mean, the Rancor? The Rancor is awesome, but just another variety on "giant ravenous monster." X-Wings, Tie Fighters? Just variants on "space ship battle" combined with WWII flying ace movie. Those are all cool and interesting, but not distinct.

 

[Remus Lupin]

Now here's the thing I don't get. FFG isn't cutting out the Jedi. They are merely taking the time and page space necessary to do the job right, rather than pushing out a bog standard all encompassing RPG whose only stand-out feature is that it is licensed. If you want a generic game system that has the word "Jedi" pasted in it, you already have that. It's called Saga Edition. Why would anyone want FFG to water down the game design just so that it can do what other existing games do just as badly as the existing games do them?

Well, here again, we have a difference of opinion. Without the Jedi, the setting is absolutely generic. With the Jedi, it's Star Wars. And you're right, very little is original, but if anything in Star Wars was, it was the idea of bringing the warrior/monk archetype and planting it right at the heart of a science-fiction mythos. To a lesser extent, I guess I'd grant the starfighter battles. But that's subsidiary from my perspective.

And as for the only distinction being "this is licensed," I understand the purpose of the license to say "You can play in this universe." If I want to play in that universe, though, i want to play the kind of game I want in that universe. But you are certainly right, the saga edition meets my needs quite well. It's just a pity I can't get on board with how FF is approaching it, as I'm generally positively inclined to their products.

 

[Morrus]

Without the Jedi, the setting is absolutely generic. With the Jedi, it's Star Wars.

Statements like this make me so very sad.