Arcane Power- Wizards Stretched Thin

[yesnomu]

Yesnomu, or anyone else for that matter, never ****ing attribute quotes to me that I didn't write again!!! I have a major ****ing issue with that.

I was paraphrasing, and didn't mean to be offensive. I'm sorry if I did offend you. I'll put a real quote in there.

 

[Plane Sailing]

No, I'm not going to chill out about it. There was no mistake. It was deliberate and reprehensible. I'm just making it clear exactly how reprehensible. Perhaps next time people will think before pulling such a crap move.

You'd better chill out about it, otherwise you'll end up getting suspended - and it's not worth that.

Feel free to email me if you want to talk about it.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Blimey! One more admin in here at work at the same time and we reach critical mass!

I'll duck out quickly before Henry or Morrus appears.

 

[Piratecat]

Thanks for apologizing. As you know, that's not the best way to discuss something. It's fine to disagree, but never resort to anything that could be considered a cheap shot. And if someone offends you, reporting the post is the correct action instead of taking the other member to task in the thread.

Carry on, folks.

 

[almuric]

Can I quote some things from pages 28 and 29 in the PHB?

In the paragon tier, your character is a shining
example of heroism, ... You are
able to travel more quickly from place to place, perhaps
on a hippogriff mount or using a spell to grant your
party flight. In combat, you might fly or even teleport
short distances....

In the epic tier, your character’s capabilities are
truly superheroic... ...your whole party might take to the air in
combat.

The game was designed with characters being able to fly at paragon and above levels. I see several level 22 utilities that grant flight (with or without hover) until the end of the encounter. Maybe it's unfair that sorcerers get it at 16th, but it's not completely unexpected. It appears that lack of flight will be the unusual characteristic by mid-epic.

If I were to DM and some of the characters had the power of flight, I'd make sure to account for it in my combats. If the sorcerer, who's somewhat squishy, wants to fly 10 squares up and lob acid bolts all day, then he'll find that he's fighting some other flying thing 10 squares away from where his buddies can help him.

The game's not broken because someone gets flying; It was obviously designed with that in mind. I remember months ago where someone did some stats on the Monster Manual and IIRC at epic a sizable percentage of monsters could fly.

If I'm a 16th level sorcerer and I fly this round, then I'm in the air at the end of the round. At the start of my next round I'm still in the air and as long as I fly at least 2 squares that round I will still be in the air at the end of it. So I'm fine as long as I use this 16th level utility to fly each round. If I'm ever stunned, immobilized, dazed, or something, then things will change. I really don't see the mechanical problem. If for some reason I don't use my fly at-will, I fall. So if I only get one action (dazed?) and I don't use it to fly, then I guess I'd fall and be completing my one other action just before I splatted, perhaps.

Mass Fly Wizard Utility 22
<snip>
Targets: You and each ally in burst
Effect: All targets gain a speed of fly 8 until the end of your
next turn.
Sustain Minor: You can sustain this power until the end of
the encounter or for 5 minutes. If you don’t sustain this
power...

That one's in the PHB. How come no one in here thought that was broken for the last 9 months? How come this 'kiting' problem is only now rearing its ugly head?

 

[Akaiku]

How come no one in here thought that was broken for the last 9 months? How come this 'kiting' problem is only now rearing its ugly head?

Mass fly is a daily. Most people don't have a problem of daily I win buttons for epic. They will just put 2 encounters instead of one.

Having one person fly forever whilst shooting, however, is a problem because they don't want to use flying or ranged foes or have ceilings in every encounter.

 

[yesnomu]

The game was designed with characters being able to fly at paragon and above levels. I see several level 22 utilities that grant flight (with or without hover) until the end of the encounter. Maybe it's unfair that sorcerers get it at 16th, but it's not completely unexpected. It appears that lack of flight will be the unusual characteristic by mid-epic.

That snippet you posted specifically mentions flight for short distances in paragon, and that's been the trend for level 16 stuff so far--single move actions or a per-day restriction. In epic, fly speeds are granted much more often, and if DW were epic, the interpretation that allows the sorc to stay in the air would be more palatable. As-is, it's too early.

If I'm a 16th level sorcerer and I fly this round, then I'm in the air at the end of the round. At the start of my next round I'm still in the air and as long as I fly at least 2 squares that round I will still be in the air at the end of it.

This is disputed. Rules for flying without a fly speed are absent, and assuming the flight speed rules apply completely is dangerous. This haphazard rules application leads to things like Cadfan's example of hovering rhinos (druid in bird form flies, shifts to rhino, attacks. Next turn, attacks again, turn back to bird and flies again).

Anyway, it'll get clarified soon, for sure. We'll see where it goes then.

 

[Uber Man Beast Child]

when i first started playing... it was a really bad 4e wizard... the whole group got a bad impression, and i was waiting for arcane power to see if they got better to prove to freakes who bash wizards tha their some of the most magical classes in the game...

i do really need to get the book though...

 

[baberg]

when i first started playing... it was a really bad 4e wizard... the whole group got a bad impression, and i was waiting for arcane power to see if they got better to prove to freakes who bash wizards tha their some of the most magical classes in the game...

I'm not sure about other people, but I've had no problem with Wizards as a class - especially after my group picked one up mid-stream at about level 6 (level 8 now) and suddenly I had to deal with Sleep and Stinking Cloud in my encounters. Those were major game-changers and made me revisit how I was running encounters.

As for being "magical"... when compared to 3.5 everybody but the Wizard has stepped up in the "I'm Magic!" department while the Wizard has stepped down. But they still get cantrips to play around with, so I'm ok with that.

 

[Felon]

Well, ever since Soulstorm posted the custserv response--you know, the one that contradicted the indisputably "obvious" answer--I've been tuning to watch how the worm has turned. I'm curious to ask those insistent that falling is an implicit part of flying without a fly speed: should we just deem powers that explicity state "if you don't land, you fall" as simply engaging in unnecessary exposition?