Archdevil Moloch (Mordenkainen's tome of foes preview from Dragon+)

dave2008

Legend
Well, one could argue that a high level party should always have counterspell prepared. But if the Symbol was precast, it wouldn't have helped. Though probably dispel magic should be on the 'always prepared' list too :)

Some would think that, but I know my group almost never has access to those spells (they are lvl 10 currently).
 

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jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
Some would think that, but I know my group almost never has access to those spells (they are lvl 10 currently).
They don't have access because they don't have an arcane caster? Or because they do but opted not to take/prepare the spells? If the latter, then of course that is their choice, but I guess that as they continue to advance they may decide to rethink it.

Though I suppose it depends how you play counterspell, if you follow the Xanathar's rules it is less effective. Dispel magic though, I'm guessing they are going to want :)
 

dave2008

Legend
They don't have access because they don't have an arcane caster? Or because they do but opted not to take/prepare the spells? If the latter, then of course that is their choice, but I guess that as they continue to advance they may decide to rethink it.

Though I suppose it depends how you play counterspell, if you follow the Xanathar's rules it is less effective. Dispel magic though, I'm guessing they are going to want :)

The only full caster we have is a druid, we have one multi-class fighter/wizard who only recently got access to 3rd level spells. He doesn't currently have counterspell. The druid has dispel magic, but hasn't used it much.
 


Jaelommiss

First Post
I've finally got some time to write up how the fights went with Moloch.

First, the set up. The players each created three level 17 PCs, multiclassing and feats allowed. Average value for HP was taken instead of rolling. All PHB, SCAG, and EE material is allowed, plus they can request XGtE material for review (because I haven't read it yet). Point buy or standard array for stats. The players were told nothing about the enemy they would be facing, and I asked them not to tell me about their characters ahead of time. Apart from taking a few minutes to check their math at the start of the session, I never saw their character sheets. The twelve characters they made would be split into groups of four, and party would go into the fight one day after the previous. Groups after the first are assumed to have been scrying previous battles.

The situation, as the players were informed, is that there had been disappearances and murders in the region surrounding a volcano known to house a sleeping red dragon decades past. No bodies were ever recovered, but blood-soaked mud made the missing peoples' fate evident. After entire villages started vanishing, people took notice, and the PCs were hired to locate and destroy the threat. I had intended to use the missing people turned zombies as an angry terrain feature in the final fight. This behaviour definitely doesn't match Moloch's profile, but I wanted a was to justify neither the party or Moloch being aware of each other. Moloch would work far better as a manipulator, but I didn't want to tip off the players on his Intelligence or manipulative nature.

Before the session I rolled up a set of magic items for each group. Each set consisted of seven CR 0-4 hoards, fifteen CR 5-10 hoards (out of a recommended eighteen), seven CR 11-16 hoards (out of a recommended twelve), and two CR 17+ hoards (out of a recommended eight). The number of hoards was slightly reduced from the recommended value because they were level 17 instead of 20.

The first party had the following items:
Potion of Healing 16
Potion of Greater Healing 7
Potion of Superior Healing 1
Potion of Supreme Healing 1
Potion of Climbing 5
Potion of Growth 1
Potion of Water Breathing 1
Potion of Animal Friendship 1
Potion of Fire Breath 1
Potion of Gaseous Form 1
Potion of Invulnerability 3
Potion of Heroism 3
Potion of Fire Giant Strength 1
Potion of Speed 4
Potion of Flying 1
Potion of Longevity 1

Oil of Sharpness 2
Oil of Slipperiness 1

0th Level Scroll 4
1st Level Scroll 7
2nd Level Scroll 1
3rd Level Scroll 2
4th Level Scroll 1
5th Level Scroll 2

Scroll of Protection 1
Quall's Feather Token (Tree) 1
Dust of Dryness 7
Ammunition, +1 (Arrow) 1
Ammunition, +3 (Arrow) 1

Bag of Holding
Cloak of the Manta Ray
Driftglobe
Trident of Fish Command 2
Sentinel Shield 2
Boots of Elvenkind
Quiver of Elhonna
Gauntlets of Ogre Power
Sun Blade
Vicious Weapon
Tentacle Rod
Ring of Free Action

The second party had:
Potion of Healing 5
Potion of Greater Healing 1
Potion of Supreme Healing 1
Potion of Climbing 1
Potion of Growth 1
Potion of Water Breathing 2
Potion of Diminution 1
Potion of Heroism 1
Potion of Clairvoyance 1
Potion of Frost Giant Strength 1
Potion of Invisibility 2
Potion of Speed 1

Oil of Slipperiness 1

0th Level Scroll 1
1st Level Scroll 1
2nd Level Scroll 1
4th Level Scroll 1
5th Level Scroll 2

Bead of Force 1
Quall's Feather Token (Anchor) 2
Ammunition, +1 1
Ammunition, +2 1

Driftglobe
Bag of Holding
Folding Boat
Horseshoes of a Zephyr
Figurine of Wondrous Power (Silver Raven)
Rod of the Pact Keeper, +1
Necklace of Adaptation
Javelin of Lightning
Sentinel Shield
Helm of Telepathy
Armour, +1 Studded Leather
Weapon, +2
Staff of Charming
Shield of Missile Attraction
Necklace of Prayer Beads 2
Periapt of Proof Against Poison
Belt of Hill Giant Strength (Str 21)
Wand of Enemy Detection
Iuon Stone, Intellect
Armour, +1 Plate
Robe of the Archmagi
Rod of Lordly Might
Vorpal Sword
Deck of Many Things

We never got to the third party, unfortunately, so I will not bother listing their items.

Any further detailing items was left to the players. For instance, they could choose what form a +1 weapon takes. Want a +1 longsword? Sure. Or a +1 longbow if that's what they wanted. Same thing for scrolls. They got to choose what spell was on it.


I made the mistake of throwing away my notes after the fight, so unfortunately I'll be going off of memory here. Things like initiative order will end up being muddled at times and I'm sure I will forget at least a couple of the turns that happened.

The first party consisted of a bear barbarian 15/ fighter 2, Devotion paladin 17, monk 17, and rogue 17. They players told me that they had optimized to be as hard to put down as possible so they could force me to reveal as many abilities as possible. The paladin was the only one they had with Dispel Magic. Moloch's Teleport, not being a spell, would have not been affected by Counterspell.

The battlefield was a deep crevice in the volcano, accessed by a tunnel or through the caldera above (they chose the tunnel). The floor was mostly flat other than a ten foot cliff leading down to where the tunnel opens up. Both sides were lined with raised cliffs, raised above the floor in fifteen foot increments and sometimes raised as much as sixty feet above the adjacent ledge. The red dragon, deceased, who had inhabited the mountain, was visible on one of the highest ledges but far enough away that it is difficult whether he is alive or not. Over the months since slaying the dragon and moving in, Moloch had cast Symbol near the bottom of several cliffs. Specifically, he placed them on the fifteen foot raises that would be easiest to climb and the ten foot raise near the tunnel's entrance. Also near the tunnel's entrance was a table and chair he had stolen from a village he butchered. It faces the tunnel, and has a book on it that has also bee trapped with a Symbol. The trigger for the Symbols on the cliff is "someone attempts to climb the cliff on which this symbol is inscribed while I (Moloch) am not within line of effect of the Symbol." The one in the book is the same other than phrasing it to go off when someone opened the book. The PHB allows you to "refine the trigger so the spell is activated only under certain circumstances." I also asked a fellow DM if he, as a DM, would allow such triggers, and he said that he would. I assumed that being behind cover from the point of origin of the Symbol would provide protection from its effect, and had Moloch cast them at the base of the cliffs such that someone standing at the top would not be affected unless they leaned over. The raised surfaces on either side of the crevice were far enough apart that a Symbol on one side would only affect a sliver of the terrain on the other. The opening above the battlefield left is all in bright light. When the party arrived, Moloch was sitting at the desk reading a ledger, Alter Selfed into a human in order to fit in the chair.

The party started off with scouts informing them of tracks leading to and from the tunnel at the base of the mountain, and being offered a teleport to a location of their choosing. They elected to start by the tunnel, and wandered in instead of choosing to look around any more. For the sake of this exercise I had not trapped or populated the tunnel, though in a real game I would have. After drinking their one hour duration potions, the rogue sneaked ahead from the rest and soon discovered Moloch (again, appearing human) sitting at his desk. The paladin wanted to get close enough to use Divine Sense, and after a short discussion about the merits of trying to be sneaky, decided to walk up openly with the rogue beside him. The monk and barbarian stood back a bit, but within sight.

Moloch looks up, sees what is "obviously a paladin" (as described by my player), and, pretending to be a secretary, asks them who they are there to see. Paladin's Divine Sense tells him that Moloch is a fiend. Moloch, seeing the paladin walking close, acts panicked, tells them that he will go and get the master and please sign in in this book (offers them the trapped book) and please don't smite me, and teleports away to the dragon's corpse. Mechanics wise, the paladin wanted to attack with his Sun Blade, initiative was rolled, the Barbarian won and readied rage if they were attacked, and Moloch teleported away to the dragon on his turn after the barbarian.

The players could see him, but elected not to follow. Molcoh waited for them to set off the Symbol. The players get their weapons up and ready attacks if Moloch comes back, and Moloch continues to pretend to talk to the dragon. At this point the players were not certain whether or not Moloch (not that they knew his name) was the boss or merely a fiendish secretary. Realizing that the party isn't going to open the book, Moloch drops his Alter Self and raises a Wall of Fire down by the party. The everyone but the barbarian back up, and the paladin drinks a potion of invulnerability. Moloch teleports to a ledge forty feet above the tunnel and on the far side of the wall of fire. This ledge runs along to right above the tunnel, and the barbarian climbs up because of his Potion of Climbing. The Monk also climbs up and dashes to get over the Wall of Fire to Moloch, and punches him twice, applying Quivering Palm. Moloch drops the Wall of Fire and places a Stinking Cloud on the monk, to no effect. The rogue moves back into the crevice. Moloch teleports down to the main floor, ten feet above the rogue and tunnel. The paladin runs in and tried to climb up to Moloch, setting of a Symbol. Both the paladin and rogue are stunned for one minute, and must make a saving throw at the end of each of their turns while within the area for the next ten minutes or have the duration refreshed. Moloch teleports back up to the monk and drops the Stinking Cloud.

The monk remembers that he drank a Potion of Flying, and flies down into the Symbol's area. He passes his save, grabs the rogue, and flies down the tunnel with her. The barbarian charged and attacks Moloch. In retaliation, Moloch uses his breath weapon on the barbarian, who failed, drops his weapon, and gets ready to run from Moloch. Moloch picks up the dropped greataxe, and then teleports to a high ledge on the other side of the crevice when the Stunned paladin ends his turn. The rogue drools a little bit on her turn. Monk flies into the Symbol again, passes his save, again, and pulls the paladin out and up onto a ledge below Moloch, and ends Quivering Palm. Moloch saves and takes 50+ damage.

Trying to flee from Moloch, the barbarian climbs a short cliff and sets of a Symbol. He remained stunned there for the duration of the fight. As you will see below, it wasn't a pretty death. At this point the barbarian is stunned and in a Symbol on the left side of the crevice, the paladin is stunned on the right side, and the rogue is stunned and down the tunnel. The monk is still combat capable and can fly.

Moloch uses a legendary action to Whip the monk up the ledge to him at the end of the barbarian's turn. On his turn he throws aside the barbarian's weapon and multiattacks the monk. The monk attacks, renews Quivering Palm, and flies away using the Mobile feat. Moloch Casts fly on himself on his next turn. Monk ends Quivering Palm again, Moloch saves and takes 60+ damage, and Moloch starts teleporting after him. Rogue has about six more turns of stun, and the paladin has seven. Moloch catches the monk and multiattacks him. Monk uses Flurry of Blows back and is running low on Ki. The monk asks if he can drop the almost three hundred feet down to the ground and resume flying shortly before hitting the ground, and I allow him because he has Slow Fall anyway. Moloch was already in cleanup mode, so it hardly matters. Using Legendary Actions Moloch comes down with the fury of the Nine Hells on the Monk, dropping him. He then takes the time to strike him again to confirm the kill before teleporting over to the fighter (five turns left). Wall of Fire + Whip Legendary Actions get through the paladin in about three rounds, mostly because of the Potion of Invulnerability. Moloch casts Wall of Fire around the barbarian who is still stunned. Rogue recovers from stun and runs away with Moloch's haunting laughter pursuing her. We stopped after the barbarian's rage wore off and he started taking full damage.


My thoughts:
Symbol 1/Day with time to prepare is utterly broken. The paladin's player is still salty about Moloch baiting him into setting off the first Symbol. Apart from occasional grumbling about the Symbol spell, everyone thought that the fight was fair. With a +13 to Con saves Moloch was able to fly in relative safety. Even without stuns, teleporting three times per round would have wrecked a predominantly melee oriented party. At will Walls of Fire makes for a great way to finish off someone who gets caught in a Symbol, and makes attempting to rescue them even more costly. Talking with one of the players, he would be interested in repeating the fight in that arena without the Symbols, though he expects that the fight would end up going the same way in the end. The players didn't always act in the most optimal fashion, and took some major risks. The monk choosing to fly into the Symbol to save the rogue and paladin could have easily backfired, though I think the monk and barbarian could have survived long enough for the stuns to expire if they worked together (and if the barbarian hadn't set off a symbol).



Writing that up took longer than expected. If anyone wants me to, I can write up the second fight some time tomorrow or Friday. It really wasn't all that special, though. Bard True Polymorphs into an adult gold dragon, rogue draws thirteen (!) cards from the deck of many things, the battlefield is obliterated thanks to a ruling I made related to the deck of many things, and Moloch and a rogue end up in the Astral Sea after a Portable Hole (thanks DoMT) ends up in a Bag of Holding. There's also an aerial duel between Moloch and the dragon, a Folding Boat that gets anchored in mid air with a Feather Token, and a dragon being used as a flying artillery platform.
 
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Wiseblood

Adventurer
Did no one Counterspell? Did no one use Dimensional Anchor? (Yes, I know the latter isn't in the 5E SRD.)
I can't speak to the countering of symbol or other innate spellcasting but counterspell will not work on his teleport. Moloch teleports magically (as if there was another way, perhaps he's making a quantum leap) he does not cast teleport.
 

Quartz

Hero
It seems to me that Moloch can't do the 'grab the dropped item and teleport' trick because the Legendary Action needs to happen immediately and further, the dropping of the item happens on Moloch's turn, so he doesn't get a Legendary Action anyway. He's still free to grab and teleport on his next Action, though, but others present might prevent that.
 

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