Are Giants Overpowered?

[dcollins]

Unfortunaley (for the giant) they don't fly have only half decent ranged attacks (not awseomly powerful like they are in melee)...

Did you note the simulation I ran 5 posts up which indicate a giant is more dangerous in a ranged fight against a given level NPC fighter?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Did you note the simulation I ran 5 posts up which indicate a giant is more dangerous in a ranged fight against a given level NPC fighter?

Heh.

We (thanks to the ranger with the scary Spot bonus) noticed a hill giant lying in ambush off to one side of a path through a valley.

We took a detour off to the other side of the path, ending up about 300 feet away from the giant at closest approach.

He chucked a rock, that missed very, very badly.

I replied with an arrow that critted.

That seemed like a good start. The next couple of rounds he missed again, and I hit once more.

But then the first rock actually hit, and it suddenly became apparent that the hit point disparity was going to make an attritional contest somewhat foolish from my point of view...

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

Indeed. Ouch.

 

[Whitemage Bishieboy]

CR is based on a party of PCs,one which includes one tank,one divine caster,one arcane caster and one rogue.with no deviation.change that and the dynamics of CRs change.the giant is balenced on the fact the pcs will let the mage sit back and yell fireball till it dies.the fighter is balenced based on,ok got me there a NPC fighter isnt worth its CR.but npcs have really really low gear thresholds,and since the npc is a warrior type thats everything to it.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Did you note the simulation I ran 5 posts up which indicate a giant is more dangerous in a ranged fight against a given level NPC fighter?

Did the fighter use cover? That can make a big difference in a fight like this, and since the giant is large size, finding effective cover is difficult for him.

 

[Darklone]

I'm surprised to see a level 10 fighter with such a crappy AC.

And the AC should be 20 anyhow with dex 18 and a chainshirt +2.

 

[Scion]

I'm surprised to see a level 10 fighter with such a crappy AC.

And the AC should be 20 anyhow with dex 18 and a chainshirt +2.

Yeah, I'll go back and change that later.

Still, the comparison uses a guy who is just the basics. He has tons of money left over to get better equipment.

Which means that this guy, who has a very poor ac for a 10th level fighter, still wins. If he is given some more stuff he will win even more.

Going by this comparison it seems incredibly likely that giants are fine for their CR. 4 characters vs 1 giant, characters have more than triple the amount of equipment of the guy I posted. Also, they will likely have a spellcaster to work on that poor will/reflex save.

Seems like a pretty open and closed case from that perspective.

 

[Darmanicus]

Giants are sitting ducks for my newbie players. Where's your problem?

Long time no see D.

I've gotta agree with ya there mate, our group just wades thru 'em...............that until the very old red dragon turns up, (BBQ time).

 

[Darklone]

Long time no see D.

I've gotta agree with ya there mate, our group just wades thru 'em...............that until the very old red dragon turns up, (BBQ time).

Yeah. All my PCs have fire resistance and are used not to get burned in their own fireballs.

I love their faces when everyone asks again: "How much fire damage???"

 

[dcollins]

Did the fighter use cover? That can make a big difference in a fight like this, and since the giant is large size, finding effective cover is difficult for him.

No, the simulation assumes no environmental advantage on either side. Just like it doesn't count the Giant's ability to hide and set an ambush in advance.

I'm surprised to see a level 10 fighter with such a crappy AC.
And the AC should be 20 anyhow with dex 18 and a chainshirt +2.

I'm not sure what you mean by that one (apparently the AC needs to be both higher and lower), but it's something you'd have to take up with Monte Cook, Skip Williams, et. al. I'm just following the rules for what the average NPC Fighter CR 12 or 13 is equipped with.