Are monster types balanced?

[BiggusGeekus]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#types

Fey Type

A fey is a creature with supernatural abilities and connections to nature or to some other force or place. Fey are usually human-shaped.
Features

A fey has the following features.

* 6-sided Hit Dice.
* Base attack bonus equal to ½ total Hit Dice (as wizard).
* Good Reflex and Will saves.
* Skill points equal to (6 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

Traits

A fey possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

* Low-light vision.
* Proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
* Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) that it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Fey not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Fey are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
* Fey eat, sleep, and breathe.

Undead Type

Undead are once-living creatures animated by spiritual or supernatural forces.
Features

An undead creature has the following features.

* 12-sided Hit Dice.
* Base attack bonus equal to ½ total Hit Dice (as wizard).
* Good Will saves.
* Skill points equal to (4 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die, if the undead creature has an Intelligence score. However, many undead are mindless and gain no skill points or feats.

Traits

An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

* No Constitution score.
* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
* Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
* Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
* Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
* Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
* Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
* Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
* Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
* Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
* Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
* Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.

Dragons obviously aren't. But they're supposed to be special.

So why aren't monster types treated as a kind of template?

 

[Sammael]

They are balanced by the fact that base CR is assigned by type and number of hit dice (and then modified for special abilities and such).

 

[BiggusGeekus]

They are balanced by the fact that base CR is assigned by type and number of hit dice (and then modified for special abilities and such).

That's not balance though. That's asking the DM/designer to correct an imbalance.

 

[mmu1]

Nope, not even remotely balanced. When the guidelines for determining CR and ECL value a hit die of Fey the same as a hit die of Outsider, it's pretty obvious something is wrong.

And dragons being "special" was one of the biggest mistakes the designers of 3E ever made. You have to be out of your mind to design a system of rules, and then intentionally introduce arbitrary exceptions into it.

 

[Sammael]

There is no such thing as absolute balance. I personally feel the current system is balanced *enough*

 

[JoeGKushner]

Another joke about the D&D system being balanced.

Outsiders and Dragons are probably some of the 'best' types around.

Having to add racial hit dice to ECL is a luagh riot.

Power should be based on power. Effect vs effect. Not "My god! This race can use this special ability all the time! Let's assign them an ECL penalty!" vs latter. "Hey, let's make stuff like the Warlock and Reserve Feats so that the players cna use those special abilities all the time!"

Bad designers. No cookie for you.

 

[Shade]

Nope, not even remotely balanced. When the guidelines for determining CR and ECL value a hit die of Fey the same as a hit die of Outsider, it's pretty obvious something is wrong.

I'm not following you. To advance an outsider, it increases by 1 CR for every 2 HD added. Fey CR increases at half that rate (1 CR for every 4 HD added).

 

[BiggusGeekus]

There is no such thing as absolute balance. I personally feel the current system is balanced *enough*

Fair enough.

My goal: I'm trying to re-envision the way I think about monsters, what they do in the game, and how I end up using them. Part of this entails a deconstruction process. So I'm trying to evaluate how powerful these types are in relation to each other.



-BG

PS Yes, this is quite possibly the nerdiest thing I could think to do with my time other than write Elminster-Star Trek-crossover fan-fic.

 

[Voadam]

Types are not designed to be balanced, CRs and ECLs are.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Types are not designed to be balanced, CRs and ECLs are.

But isn't every racial hit dice another bump on the ECL regardless of type?

So if a race has four hit dice and a +2 ELC, it's +6 or are you saying that ECL is always modified accurately so that say a four hit dice dragon would have something like +4 ECL with those four hit dice?