Armor for wizards

[Bront]

All my casters who can afford them get mithral bucklers for just this reason.

These light armour optimisation feats that already exist are actually pretty crazy in that way too though though. Why would anyone ever take Dodge again? Light Armour Optimisation + Mithral Chain Shirt == +1 AC for sure and possibly +2 AC once you raise your Dex enough.

I agree, I think the feat should be revisited. Of note though, dodge effects touch attacks, while the feat does not. Of course, the feat gives you flat footed bonuses that dodge doesn't, so it sorta balances.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I agree, I think the feat should be revisited. Of note though, dodge effects touch attacks, while the feat does not. Of course, the feat gives you flat footed bonuses that dodge doesn't, so it sorta balances.

Actually, this feat does affect touch attacks, but only if you can get the second +1 AC out of it (though admittedly you're going to need a heap of Dex to do that, so it doesn't come into play until higher level)

 

[IcyCool]

I thought the feats were a good idea at the time I proposed them, and I still do.

Light armor optimization gives you the advantage of a better armor bonus for faster characters, and medium armor optimization gives you the advantage of better speed.

*shrug* Mithral armor doesn't do anything it didn't already do to the old status quo, so I'm not sure why you are having the reaction you are.

Given the point-buy we use in Living EnWorld, I'm confident that the feat will be remarkably difficult to abuse. And, out of curiousity (as the feat is right around a year old), how many characters in LEW have this "pretty crazy" feat?

As to the Dodge point, Dodge affects your touch AC, and is the springboard into a number of great feats, so I don't see how Light Armor Op replaces it.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I thought the feats were a good idea at the time I proposed them, and I still do.

Light armor optimization gives you the advantage of a better armor bonus for faster characters, and medium armor optimization gives you the advantage of better speed.

*shrug* Mithral armor doesn't do anything it didn't already do to the old status quo, so I'm not sure why you are having the reaction you are.

Given the point-buy we use in Living EnWorld, I'm confident that the feat will be remarkably difficult to abuse. And, out of curiousity (as the feat is right around a year old), how many characters in LEW have this "pretty crazy" feat?

As to the Dodge point, Dodge affects your touch AC, and is the springboard into a number of great feats, so I don't see how Light Armor Op replaces it.

I didn't know it existed, and I don't have a lightly-armoured Dex PC. If both were true, I would have this feat. It would be the second feat I took after hitting +1 BAB, right after Weapon Finesse. It is basically a no-brainer and a required feat for such a build now (if you realise it is there )

 

[IcyCool]

I didn't know it existed, and I don't have a lightly-armoured Dex PC. If both were true, I would have this feat. It would be the second feat I took after hitting +1 BAB, right after Weapon Finesse. It is basically a no-brainer and a required feat for such a build now (if you realise it is there )

Well, it didn't sneak up on you and surprise you, it's been there for a while. Read through the feats section in the Rules and Mechanics thread sometime, you might be pleasantly surprised (or not, given your reaction).

I suppose if you don't want to go down the spring attack feat chain, and you aren't worried about upping your touch AC, then yes, this makes a better feat. It's not better in all circumstances, and neither is Dodge, so again, I'm confused as to why you think this is "must have". Certainly, for some light armor builds it will be better, and for some it will not.

But hey, if you want to make this standard op for your characters, I've got no problem with it.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Well, it didn't sneak up on you and surprise you, it's been there for a while. Read through the feats section in the Rules and Mechanics thread sometime, you might be pleasantly surprised (or not, given your reaction).

I suppose if you don't want to go down the spring attack feat chain, and you aren't worried about upping your touch AC, then yes, this makes a better feat. It's not better in all circumstances, and neither is Dodge, so again, I'm confused as to why you think this is "must have". Certainly, for some light armor builds it will be better, and for some it will not.

But hey, if you want to make this standard op for your characters, I've got no problem with it.

Dodge applies to one target and gives +1 AC. It doesn't work flatfooted (but does against Touch attacks). It requires 13 Dex.

This feat does not have a Dex requirement, but it is aimed at Dex characters, so it doesn't really matter too much. If you are wearing the correct armour (Mithral Chain Shirt, which also happens to be the most popular armour in the game already due to no real drawbacks. There's other choices too, but this will be most common) you get at least a +1 to AC against all targets. This bonus does not apply against Touch attacks (but does flat-footed). If you are a Dex monster, it also gives you a second +1 bonus to AC that is equivalent to the Dodge feat against every target, not just one.

The weirdest thing though (not the most problematic, but the weirdest) is that it takes Mithral Chain Shirt and Mithral Breastplate, which are ordinarily balanced against each other, and makes the Mithral Chain Shirt, which costs thousands of gold less, universally better (MCS with LAO has +5 AC, +7 Max Dex, 0 ACP. MBP with LAO has +5 AC, +6 Max Dex, 0 ACP)

 

[IcyCool]

Dodge applies to one target and gives +1 AC. It doesn't work flatfooted (but does against Touch attacks). It requires 13 Dex.

This feat does not have a Dex requirement, but it is aimed at Dex characters, so it doesn't really matter too much. If you are wearing the correct armour (Mithral Chain Shirt, which also happens to be the most popular armour in the game already due to no real drawbacks. There's other choices too, but this will be most common) you get at least a +1 to AC against all targets. This bonus does not apply against Touch attacks (but does flat-footed). If you are a Dex monster, it also gives you a second +1 bonus to AC that is equivalent to the Dodge feat against every target, not just one.

It didn't originally have a BAB bonus requirement either. Through some back and forth, that was added in.

The weirdest thing though (not the most problematic, but the weirdest) is that it takes Mithral Chain Shirt and Mithral Breastplate, which are ordinarily balanced against each other, and makes the Mithral Chain Shirt, which costs thousands of gold less, universally better (MCS with LAO has +5 AC, +7 Max Dex, 0 ACP. MBP with LAO has +5 AC, +6 Max Dex, 0 ACP)

So, your issue with it lies in the Dex bonus? If a character has a 24 Dex, a feat to blow for Light Armor Op, and money for a Mithril Chain Shirt, then they get full benefit of the Light Armor Op feat (Which is to say, +1 AC (which doesn't apply to touch AC, but does apply to all attacking opponents) over a character with 22 Dex, Dodge, and a MCS).

 

[IcyCool]

It occurs to me that we are de-railing Erekose13's thread. Rystil, I'll happily discuss the feats with you in another thread, if you care to start one (I'm interested to hear what you think of the Medium Armor Op feats, as well).

As to adding the reduction in Armor Failure to them, I'm against it. That sort of thing should be it's own feat, IMO.

 

[Erekose13]

fixed original post as we've quickly vetoed the modifying of the Armor Op. feats.

 

[Rystil Arden]

It occurs to me that we are de-railing Erekose13's thread. Rystil, I'll happily discuss the feats with you in another thread, if you care to start one (I'm interested to hear what you think of the Medium Armor Op feats, as well).

As to adding the reduction in Armor Failure to them, I'm against it. That sort of thing should be it's own feat, IMO.

Continued here