Ascension ability questions

[Belzamus]

Yeah, I'm almost positive 3.1 is the version I have. And I have to say, the text of Force Field in it contains nowhere near the detail that Mr. Satan is ascribing to it. As far as I can see, it's just a damage soak; no real mechanics behind it.

And I should probably clarify that my Force Field = 50 x Divine Rank x HP multiplier can only be taken once. I never really put it into use, but thinking now, perhaps it should only be 50 x DvR, with a successive Cosmic Ability adding in the HP multiplier, then maybe a Transcendental multiplying it by 10 or something, maybe having it fully regenerate each round...meh, ideas.

 

[Mr.Satan]

I have a desire to know everyone's opinions of these divine abilities. The first is designed to take into account that great Strength is often used to intimidate the weak. The second is designed to take into account that some of the wisest of individuals have been madmen.

The portfolios prerequisites of "lowest [insert ability score]" have always bothered me because they nearly completely prevent shapeshifting of anysort. Which is a staple horror concept for Cthulhu Mythos type settings.

I'd like to know everyone's opinion of the concepts...as well as their mechanics. Are the requirements too steep? Should these be Epic Feats and not Divine abilities?


Horrific Strength (Ex)
Prerequisites: Any Evil Alignment, Str 40.
Benefit: You can acquire the Fear Portfolio, even if your Strength is not your lowest ability score.
Special: Your Fear Portfolio is unaltered, Strength remains your opposed portfolio.


Insane Wisdom (Ex)
Prerequisites: Any Chaotic Alignment, Wis 40.
Benefit: You can acquire the Madness Portfolio, even if your Wisdom is not your lowest ability score.
Special: Your Madness Portfolio is unaltered, Wisdom remains your opposed portfolio.


Keeping in mind, they don't actually grant the portfolios in question. They just negate the ability score prerequisites. You still have to otherwise fulfill your portfolio responsibilities, fulfill your portfolio trials, fulfill any remaining portfolio prerequisites, still can't have the opposed portfolios, etc.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Mr Satan!

I am in two minds about the powers themselves. I suppose maybe the whole lowest ability score was a tad unfair on players - even though I always thought it made sense.

I guess I'd let these powers you have created stand.

 

[Mr.Satan]

I have a question regarding the nescient ability. Does it just apply to feats, or does it apply to all things less powerful than a divine ability?

Example: Druid + Cybernetics via the Cyborg feat from D20 Cyberscape.

Now...the concept of a cybernetic druid is not completely out of the question anyways. Especially when one considers the warforged becoming druids.

It's even less out of the question when one considers Urban Druids, which are the quintessential anti-druid (urban vs. nature).

As cities become more advanced, they become more and more technologically oriented. As more and more technology becomes more and more common, so to do cybernetics.

There are many examples of primitive variations of this in nature. But, how does nescient affect all of this?

I've read all of the rules, but I've seen no official ruling on this at all. I'm tempted to house rule it and just state that urban druids (being technologically inclined and even being able to become constructs), are allowed to have cybernetics, while the more primal druids are not.

Opinions? Comments? Ideas?

Also...I've taken a note from the Aleerins (Mechalus). They're currently an organism that is self-evolved. They became one with cybertechnology and even take an anti-druid like approach to cybering up their ecosystems. Which is what urban druids are...anti-druids.

I found the following in Dragon #250


The Mechalus Homeworlds
The mechalus homeworlds orbit the star Agemac, a K-class star just out of the G range and cooling. The system is unusual in that it has two easily habitable planets, Orod and Aleer. Aleer is smaller and warmer than Earth, with a thinner atmosphere that most humans consider acrid because of its high levels of chlorine gas. Its gravity is very close to Earth-normal. The mechalus have inhabited Aleer for as long as the species has existed (according to the fossil record) but have only relatively recently colo- nized Orod, the planet which was once home to the system's second sentient species. Orod is larger but colder than Aleer, with less seasonal variation. The system is also home to a hot gas giant named Geshlor, a hothouse planet named Fontis, and a sterile icy rock named Blagieur at the system’s edge. In addition to their home system, the mechalus have colonized more than 20 other worlds in Rigunmor space, including the second worlds of Agema, Afsha, Condree, Colet, Drochi, Galvy, and Maray and seventeen colony worlds and holdings. They are widely settled throughout Rigunmor, Concord, Orion, Insight, and StarMech space. Mechalus are the dominant life forms on their home planets, but they are the only members of their genus. All other plants and animals are domesticated and carefully controlled, or are weeds and pests that have found niches in Aleer's heavily bioengineered environment, The mechalus see no reason why plants and animals shouldn't be perfected just as they have been. Most surviving species exhibit astounding rates of growth, little or no aggression, and a range of specialized traits useful to industry. The mechalus have no respect for any life form unable to survive on its own; environmental and ecological world-views are simply aberrations in their eyes. They see those who hold such views as foolish sentimentalists unable to face up to harsh realities, and often treat them the way humans might treat a mentally retarded person, gently but always condescendingly.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Mr Satan!

I have a question regarding the nescient ability. Does it just apply to feats, or does it apply to all things less powerful than a divine ability?

Example: Druid + Cybernetics via the Cyborg feat from D20 Cyberscape.

Now...the concept of a cybernetic druid is not completely out of the question anyways. Especially when one considers the warforged becoming druids.

It's even less out of the question when one considers Urban Druids, which are the quintessential anti-druid (urban vs. nature).

As cities become more advanced, they become more and more technologically oriented. As more and more technology becomes more and more common, so to do cybernetics.

There are many examples of primitive variations of this in nature. But, how does nescient affect all of this?

I've read all of the rules, but I've seen no official ruling on this at all. I'm tempted to house rule it and just state that urban druids (being technologically inclined and even being able to become constructs), are allowed to have cybernetics, while the more primal druids are not.

Opinions? Comments? Ideas?

I think for the most part this is meta-gaming. If you are playing a Nature Druid, then the idea of all things Urbane would be anathema to you. So why would you want to be able to ignore such a stipulation that prevents you becoming an Urban Druid?

Same thing possibly with opposed portfolios.

It probably wouldn't be so bad to allow it mechanically, but it definately seems like meta-gaming to me.

 

[Mr.Satan]

So...what you're saying is that you'd consider it acceptable for an Urban Druid to have cybernetics (being one with all things urban), but thematically...it would not be acceptable for a Nature Druid (standard Druid) to have cybernetics because it doesn't fit thematically and would be metagaming?

 

[Mr.Satan]

Just for fun...and to give you an idea of where I'm going with this.

New Prestige Class

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Cyberdruid

Cyberdruids are urban druids that embrace technology as a part of nature.

The most common members of this prestige class are aleerins.

Requirements
To qualify to become a cyberdruid, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: Any cyborg.
Alignment: Any neutral.
Skills: Knowledge (nature) 15 ranks.
Feats: Implant Awareness
Spells: Able to cast 7th level druid spells.
Special: Must be an urban druid.

Table 1-1:The Cyberdruid Hit Die:d8
Class Base Fort Ref Will
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special
1 +0 +2 +0 +2 Assimilation
2 +1 +3 +0 +3 Armored Defender
3 +1 +3 +1 +3 Expanded Implants
4 +2 +4 +1 +4 Hardened Implants
5 +2 +4 +1 +4 Unified Implants
Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level): Computer Use, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Heal, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (nature), Profession , and Spellcraft.

Class Features
All the following are class features of the cyberdruid prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Cyberdruids gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Spells and Caster Level: Levels in the cyberdruid prestige class, even though they do not advance spell progression in the character's base class, still stack with the character’s base spellcasting levels to determine caster level.

Assimilation: At 1st level, a cyberdruid acquires the cyber creature template (see below). Aleerins (cyber creatures), acquire another instance of Expanded Implants (see below).

Armored Defender: At 2nd level, a cyberdruid can freely use metal armor and metal shields. The normal prohibitions no longer apply.

Expanded Implants : At 3rd level (and 1st level if an aleerin (cyber creature)), a cyberdruid gains an additional cybernetic implant. The implant grows from the cyberdruid's existing implants, drawing material from the cyberdruid's body and environment. No surgery nor any Wealth check is needed to acquire the new implant. The cyberdruid selects the implant; its PL must be equal to or lower than the campaign’s PL, and it's purchase DC cannot be more than 25 + the character's cyberdruid level. The implant must follow all normal rules for implant slots and a character's maximum number of cybernetic devices.

Hardened Implants : At 4th level, each of a cyberdruid's implants draws upon the resources of the cyberdruid and his other implants to toughen themselves. Each implant a cyberdruid has gains 50% more hardness (if it has a hardness rating) and 3 additional hit points.

Unified Implants : At 5th level, a cyberdruid's implants are such an accepted part of his body that they actually draw upon his natural resources to heal themselves. A cyberdruid can heal up to his level in hit points of damage to his cybernetics each day, spreading the healing among all his damaged cybernetic devices.


New Template

Cyber Creature

Cyber creatures, techno-organic organisms, are the ultimate expression of cybernetic life.

First created by urban druids in advanced civilizations, they're commonly found in or near urban environments.

Creating a Cyber Creature

“ Cyber Creature” is an acquired template that can be added to any corporeal, living creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

The cyber creature uses all the base creature's statistics and special abilities, except, as noted here.

Special Qualities: A cyber creature retains the special qualities of the base creature and acquires the following:

- Computer Link (Ex): As a move action, a cyber creature can link with any computer it can reach, using short filaments that extend from it's fingertips (or equivalent). Once the physical link it achieved, the cyber creature can use the computer to accomplish complex computer-related tasks more quickly than normal. A task that normally requires 1 or more minutes to complete on the computer takes a full-round action instead, while a task that normally takes 1or more hours takes 1 minute instead. The DC of the skill check increases by 5, however, as the cyber creature trades caution for expedience.
A cyber creature retains it's Dexterity bonus to armor class while linked to a computer. Disconnecting from the computer is a free action, and a linked aleerin creature who takes an attack action automatically severs the link. The link is also broken the moment the cyber creature can no longer reach the computer.

- Cybernetic Adaptability (Ex): A cyber creature can have an additional number of cybernetic attachments equal to it's level. Improper removal of a cybernetic attachment installed on a cyber creature causes 1d4 points of temporary Constitution damage [instead of 1d4 points of permanent Constitution drain, as normal]. See Chapter 11:Cybernetics of D20 Future for details.

Abilities: A cyber creature gains -2 Charisma. Intelligence and Wisdom are at least 3.

Skills: A cyber creature gains a +2 racial bonus on Computer Use checks.

Challenge Rating: +0

Level Adjustment: +0

 

[Deinos]

Hey all!

Lest it seem unreasonable, the idea that "green" druids can't use cyberware... remember, they can't even wear METAL ARMOR. These are weird folks.

In a sci fi setting, its real simple though -- there's organic tech everywhere in sci fi. Instead of getting a robot arm, they'd probably get a zerg arm or a clone arm stitched on or whatever. Instead of a conventional mecha, they'd get into an evangelion (or wild shape into one). And so forth.

Of course, a green druid can, RAW, use the shapechange spell to shapechange into a freakin' war robot or warforged titan, so it doesn't necessarily make sense. Oh well.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

So...what you're saying is that you'd consider it acceptable for an Urban Druid to have cybernetics (being one with all things urban), but thematically...it would not be acceptable for a Nature Druid (standard Druid) to have cybernetics because it doesn't fit thematically and would be metagaming?

Basically yes, although as Deinos put it, the Nature-Druid could always have some form of bio-tech (Tyrannid style-ee).

What I don't like is a player doing something anathema to the character for a meta-gamey mechanical rule bonus. But thats probably something left up to individual DMs and how persuasive the player can be in outlining the characters reasoning for the change.

 

[paradox42]

Hey all!

Lest it seem unreasonable, the idea that "green" druids can't use cyberware... remember, they can't even wear METAL ARMOR. These are weird folks.

In a sci fi setting, its real simple though -- there's organic tech everywhere in sci fi. Instead of getting a robot arm, they'd probably get a zerg arm or a clone arm stitched on or whatever. Instead of a conventional mecha, they'd get into an evangelion (or wild shape into one). And so forth.

Of course, a green druid can, RAW, use the shapechange spell to shapechange into a freakin' war robot or warforged titan, so it doesn't necessarily make sense. Oh well.

It's worth a chime-in from me on this topic, given that my own setting (as most long-time posters and readers of this forum know) featured ultra-high technology mixed with powerful magic and psionics. My setting never had the concept of Urban Druids, but the above suggestion was exactly the line I took with regard to Druids and technology. In fact, the biotech items one could acquire in game were so prized by Druids, that Druids were often the primary cultivators of the items in any given area, and few others could compete with them. This is a likely development in any situation where Druids (or nature fanatics of any stripe, really) reject technologies other than organic. They'll focus heavily on the organic tech, to keep up with people possessing less stringent beliefs who are using regular technologies like cyberware.

Historically, the biotech item my players liked best was "Bioplate," which is just what it sounds like- a suit of full-plate armor that's grown rather than made (and due to having living components, is capable of self-repair and allows an astonishing range of motion, not to mention allowing spellcasting in it far more easily than any other armor type). Not many of the PCs ever got such a suit, but those who did went out of their way to keep it and enchant/upgrade it rather than go for more powerful tech armor when given the chance.