Ashnar Spells II

[Erekose13]

I agree with many of the other posters regarding balance. Just wanted to make sure that discharging the first spell frees the captive, correct? I'd assume so because that is generally what discharging means.

For the second, rather than upping it to 3rd, setting the # of shields which provide (named) bonuses to something more like 1 per 2 levels perhaps with an initial number and a cap might work better.

 

[Rystil Arden]

(OOC: I'll bump this just for fun, since I haven't commented yet)

Erekose, you gave me an interesting idea on the shackles--what if they didn't discharge? Compared to Hideous Laughter, a version of this spell that doesn't go away until the time limit ends gives the same Will save but allows them to perform some actions if they like (unlike Hideous Laughter) and others if they are willing to take damage. Throw in an Escape Artist check like Patlin suggested (maybe DC 20) to try to act without taking damage (though you don't actually escape the shackles, as they move with you), and you've got a neat level 2 spell

As to the shields, I'll echo the sentiments of others in saying that the current state is likely a bit strong for a level 2 spell--actually, it is a bit wonky because when you can first learn it at level 3, it is actually arguably not as useful as Shield (lower AC bonus total and doesn't stop Magic Missiles). However, it rapidly increases in utility until it peaks at level 10, where you can give a slightly superior Shield (+5 AC) to two targets or a weaker Shield (say +4 +3 +3) to three, etc. In a group of size 5, you'll expect probably at least one character on average will already be using a shield, so if the caster gives himself a normal Shield spell, he can probably provide nearly equivalent value to the rest of his group with this spell, making it almost as good as Mass Shield. Going from a touch range to a Mass spell is generally +4 levels, and normal Shield is Personal, but admittedly this is not quite as good as being Mass.

If you did something like 2 mini-shields per caster level (max 20, perhaps), with a cap of 4 shields per ally, that could work. Another idea is to keep it at level 2 and make it an ablative shield, though this requires a bit more knowhow on the part of the GM--it's a really neat image though. Basically, with this idea, every time an attack misses the player but would have hit them without the spell, a mini-shield dives in front of the attack and shatters, giving them one less mini-shield and thus lowering their AC by 1.

 

[Knight Otu]

I actually did some changes that I hasn't posted until now.

Ashnar's Fiery Shackles
Conjuration (Creation) [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: 1 round/level or until discharged (D)
Saving Throw: Reflex negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
Fiery shackles enwrap the limbs of the target, preventing it from moving in any meaningful way without harming itself.
The target can take purely mental actions (such as spells without any components), actions that only involve speaking (including spells with only verbal components), and five foot steps without discharging the spell. Any other action discharges the spell. Also, the target cannot make a successful reflex save without discharging the fiery shackles, and must remain flat-footed to prevent the spell from being discharged. However, the target is not helpless.
Discharging the spell deals 3d6 points of fire damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +10) to the target, freeing the target in the process.
The target can attempt an Escape Artist check (DC equal to the spell's DC plus 5) to escape the shackles. An Escape Artist check that fails by 4 or less means that the target could not escape, but did not cause the shackles to discharge. An Escape Artist check that fails by 5 or more discharges the shackles as above.
Focus: A set of masterwork manacles (costing 50 gp).

Ashnar's Shield Swarm
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
I didn't want to complicate the spell by adding another per level variable (Erekose's last idea). The wording turned out to be ugly. Rystil, is your first suggestion meant for a 3rd level spell?

 

[Rystil Arden]

What changed to the shackles other than the things people suggested in the thread (or is the answer simply nothing?)

For the shields, yes, my first suggestion is a level 3 spell. It is a weakened version of Mass Shield that doesn't eliminate magic missiles. It seems about right for a 2 level drop from the standard for a Mass spell of +4, though it is admittedly rising from Personal rather than Touch, so it may be too powerful (since groups will rarely be large enough to prevent the caster from protecting all his allies). The important thing is that it is of clear utility the moment you get the spell (two +3s and a +4, or two +4s and a +2) and hopefully it doesn't get too out of hand at the cap.

 

[Knight Otu]

What changed to the shackles other than the things people suggested in the thread (or is the answer simply nothing?)

Things that were suggested here. In detail:
- Turning the material component into a focus.
- Turning the save into Reflex.
- Making the spell dismissable.
- Clarifying that the target must remain flat-footed, and that discharging the spell frees the target.

For the shields, yes, my first suggestion is a level 3 spell. It is a weakened version of Mass Shield that doesn't eliminate magic missiles. It seems about right for a 2 level drop from the standard for a Mass spell of +4, though it is admittedly rising from Personal rather than Touch, so it may be too powerful (since groups will rarely be large enough to prevent the caster from protecting all his allies). The important thing is that it is of clear utility the moment you get the spell (two +3s and a +4, or two +4s and a +2) and hopefully it doesn't get too out of hand at the cap.

For a 3rd level spell using my version, the caster could create a +5 shield from the start already, so it would be more of a range shield spell, becoming a semi-mass shield at tenth. It might be ok to raise the cap a bit while dropping the amount of shields to 4 per person, though.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Things that were suggested here. In detail:
- Turning the material component into a focus.
- Turning the save into Reflex.
- Making the spell dismissable.
- Clarifying that the target must remain flat-footed, and that discharging the spell frees the target.

Ah, yes. I still think it would be a balanced 2nd-level spell if it didn't go away when it zapped you.

For a 3rd level spell using my version, the caster could create a +5 shield from the start already, so it would be more of a range shield spell, becoming a semi-mass shield at tenth. It might be ok to raise the cap a bit while dropping the amount of shields to 4 per person, though.

I forgot about that--I guess that yeah, it would basically just be a Ranged Shield at level 5 when you first acquire it, with a slightly higher bonus. I suppose that the increased range and +1 AC (plus distribution possibilities) makes it comparable with WotC's Greater Mage Armour, so that could work. 1 per level limit 20, limit 5 per ally?

 

[Knight Otu]

Ah, yes. I still think it would be a balanced 2nd-level spell if it didn't go away when it zapped you.

Remember, I made these changes before you bumped the thread. I'll think about it.

1 per level limit 20, limit 5 per ally?

Making it essentially shield for 5 persons at 20th (or a +5 for four persons)? I was thinking lower numbers for each, but if you think that would be balanced...

 

[Rystil Arden]

Remember, I made these changes before you bumped the thread. I'll think about it.


Making it essentially shield for 5 persons at 20th (or a +5 for four persons)? I was thinking lower numbers for each, but if you think that would be balanced...

Hmmm...as I said earlier, it may be slightly too strong since de facto 20 shields is almost always going to be sufficient to outfit the whole group, though it does take until level 20. 10 is kind of small, though. I'd say 15 may be the magic number, actually. +5 to 3 targets (usually enough but hits a possible snag for a group with no shield-users), and it isn't easily divisible if you need more targets unless you're willing to drop to +3.

 

[Knight Otu]

Hmmm...as I said earlier, it may be slightly too strong since de facto 20 shields is almost always going to be sufficient to outfit the whole group, though it does take until level 20. 10 is kind of small, though. I'd say 15 may be the magic number, actually. +5 to 3 targets (usually enough but hits a possible snag for a group with no shield-users), and it isn't easily divisible if you need more targets unless you're willing to drop to +3.

That's definitely closer ro what I was thinking.

 

[Rystil Arden]

That's definitely closer ro what I was thinking.

The only reason why the higher cap might be acceptable, actually, is that a mithral buckler to cast Magic Vestment on is pocket change at that level and if you make it +1 Animated, it is usable for anybody but the Monk. Still I like a 15 cap better, I think.