Ask Wizards Response for 12/22

[ghearus]

On todays Ask Wizard Q&A, the question was

"My warlock has the Sneak of Shadows multiclass feat but is already trained in Thievery; can I pick a different skill from the rogue class?"

The response was:
"No. If you already have the skill you would gain by taking a multiclass feat, you do not gain a replacement benefit."

I think that is not a complete answer; at each level a character has the option to retrain one skill, feat, or power. Shouldn't these types of questions provide guidance to reflect this? A far more complete and satisfying answer would look something like this:

"No; if you already have the skill you would gain by taking a multiclass feat, you should choose to retrain a skill, or else you would lose the benefit."

Am I being too demanding or unreasonable?

 

[Solodan]

Yes. I don't see anywhere we can gain a feat twice, or a skill twice. If somehow one gains a double skill, the second simply doesn't apply. Since you have to gain a level to get sneak of shadows (as is implied, you wouldn't take a 1st level feat with a skill you already have) why don't you retrain out of thievery before taking the feat?

 

[cmbarona]

Well, I don't think it's an unreasonable point to make. D&D Q&A should address everyone, not just those who see the "obvious" workarounds.

 

[Maleketh]

Heck you can retrain out of Thievery AFTER taking the feat. You gain it from two sources; since you chose it as a warlock, you can train out of it as a warlock as well.

This might come up if, for example, you want to take Sneak of Shadows and retrain one of your powers at the same level.

 

[nittanytbone]

While in this case, your suggestion of retraining the old warlock skill is sound, if WOTC had mentioned that, it might have muddied the waters for the Clerics who grab Paladin Training (and thus double up on Religion).

 

[Baumi]

I don't like the solution at all. It makes you regret several obvious multiclass options (nearly all arcane have get arcana, divine get religion, etc.), so if you stay with your powersource (like a wizard that multiclass to swordmage) you have to forgo half of the feat-benefit.

 

[CapnZapp]

I think that Q&A answer is perfectly adequate.

Good call not complicating things by bringing in retraining into the picture.

The rule is simple: you gain no benefit from getting Training from two different sources. A Fighter who takes Skill Training (Athletics) gains absolutely no benefit if he has already chosen Athletics as a trained skill.

The fact that you can retrain (either the skill or the feat) so that the feat once again becomes useful is a completely separate issue, and I strongly believe not mentioning that in the answer was the pedagogical choice.

 

[CapnZapp]

I don't like the solution at all. It makes you regret several obvious multiclass options (nearly all arcane have get arcana, divine get religion, etc.), so if you stay with your powersource (like a wizard that multiclass to swordmage) you have to forgo half of the feat-benefit.

Huh?

The way you express yourself makes me think this is news to you. But there's no change in the rules, just clarification.

If you have already taken a multi-class feat in the belief you somehow got a compensation for the fact you're trained in a skill twice, there's two easy solutions:

1) At next level, retrain away from that multi-class feat.
2) Or just suck it up, it's not such a great loss as you make it out to be.

 

[Stogoe]

I don't like the solution at all. It makes you regret several obvious multiclass options (nearly all arcane have get arcana, divine get religion, etc.), so if you stay with your powersource (like a wizard that multiclass to swordmage) you have to forgo half of the feat-benefit.

If you want to houserule that multiclassing into paladin or wizard gives you Skill Focus, that seems dandy to me. But it's a houserule.

 

[Runestar]

I don't like the solution at all. It makes you regret several obvious multiclass options (nearly all arcane have get arcana, divine get religion, etc.), so if you stay with your powersource (like a wizard that multiclass to swordmage) you have to forgo half of the feat-benefit.

Perhaps, but the point of the FAQ is to provide answers to existing rule questions, using the existing rules. It is not the place of the staff fielding these queries to bend the rules in order to come up with a response to suit you. Their job is simply to give RAW solutions.

In that sense, they would not be incorrect, in that their answer follows the rules to the letter. There is certainly no provision in the rules for retroactive retraining of any sort should you ever access a duplicate ability, so it makes no sense for them to cook up some imaginary rule, nor should they be faulted for not doing so, IMO.

It is like in 3e, when the sage ruled that anyone wearing a monk's belt got their wis mod to AC as well. Whether it should, however, was another issue, and outside of the jurisdiction of the Sage. Same corollary here.