D&D 5E Assassin Variant: Poisoner, not Infiltrator

[CleverNickName]

One of my players is frustrated with the Assassin subclass. The "Assassinate" ability is powerful when it works, but it hasn't been very reliable for his character. He doesn't care much for the sneaky spymaster stuff like acting and wearing disguises either, but he does enjoy potions and alchemy. His character recently joined a faction The Iron Cauldron (an underground group of apothecaries, poisoners, and drug dealers who specialize in illegal substances), and he asked about ways to incorporate that into his subclass instead of the "assume a false identity" stuff.

This is what I came up with on the fly; I'm sure it needs to be balanced and reworked a bit....and that's what I'm posting it here for.

What do you think?

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Variant Assassin: Poisoner

POISONER (replaces ASSASSINATE)
You learn the Poison Spray cantrip at 3rd Level. The Save DC for this and all other class features is (8 + your Intelligence modifier + your proficiency bonus).

VENOMED STRIKE (replaces ASSASSINATE)
Starting at 3rd level, your Sneak Attacks deal +1d6 points of poison damage, and the target must make a Constitution save or gain the Poisoned condition for 1 minute. The creature can repeat its save throw at the end of each of its turns, negating the Poisoned condition on a success. This poison damage increases to +2d6 at 5th level, +3d6 at 11th level, and +4d6 at 17th level.

INCREASED POTENCY (replaces INFILTRATION EXPERTISE)
At 9th level, living creatures no longer have immunity or resistance to Poison damage against poisons that you apply yourself, and Antitoxin no longer provides any benefit. (Non-living creatures, such as Constructs and Undead, remain unaffected.)

TRANQUILIZER DART (replaces IMPOSTER)
Beginning at 13th level, when you poison a living creature with your sneak attack ability, you can use your Reaction to cast Hold Monster on that creature. (Casting the spell in this manner does not require Concentration.) Once you use this ability, you cannot use it again until you finish a long rest.

DEADLY TOXIN (replaces DEATH STRIKE)
At 17th level, a living creature Poisoned by your Sneak Attack automatically takes 20 (6d6) points of Poison damage at the start of its turn.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

If a PC is too focused into using poisons then the DM could use poisonproof monsters as plants, outsiders, undead and constructs.

 

[CleverNickName]

If a PC is too focused into using poisons then the DM could use poisonproof monsters as plants, outsiders, undead and constructs.

I mean...yes? This is true for every type of attack and damage, though. If a PC is too focused into using X, the DM can always use X-proof Whatevers. (X can be anything from acid to slashing.) The player is aware of this.

I don't know if it helps, but this ability doesn't change the type of sneak attack damage to Poison; it just adds additional poison damage and possibly the Poisoned condition some of the time. The 9th level ability makes it a little more useful, but the intent wasn't to always grant even more damage to every target. I was trying to keep it more in line with Infiltration, Imposter, etc.

But now I'm wondering: is this still not enough? Is it still underpowered compared to the abilities it is replacing?

 

[Clint_L]

I like it! But I would definitely let them keep the assassinate ability at level 3 - let's be honest, poison spray is kind of weak, and when assassinate works (which is not that often) it is what keeps the sub-class viable. Frankly, I think assassin rogues (and rogues in general) need a boost, so I might just give them all these new abilities on top of what they already have.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

My suggestion is the poisoner should can use different "recipes" to craft "toxins" with different type of damage. For example fire against plants, holy water against undead and acid against constructs.

 

[CleverNickName]

My suggestion is the poisoner should can use different "recipes" to craft "toxins" with different type of damage. For example fire against plants, holy water against undead and acid against constructs.

This isn't a bad idea, but that kind of item crafting is already covered elsewhere in my campaign, and it can be used by any character class--not just rogues.

Spoiler: In a Nutshell--

At around 4th or 5th level, the characters started finding scrolls with formulae written on them. If they gather the ingredients in the formula, and have proficiency with the right tools (Alchemist Tools, Poisoner's Kit, etc.) they can craft the item over Downtime. This is one of the benefits of joining the Iron Cauldrons faction: members get access to new formulas every so often.

Our cleric is fond of making "holy hand grenades," a modified alchemist's fire that deals Radiant damage instead of Fire damage. Requires 1 vial of holy water, 1 vial of alchemist fire, and 1 day of downtime to craft each grenade.

If I didn't already have something like this in my campaign, I think it would make an excellent 3rd level feature instead of the Poison Spray cantrip.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I'd keep the Assassin as-is, but add the Poisoner feat for free.

I would add a feature that any monster left with an amount of HP lower than the assassin's HD dies after an attack.

and maybe a feature that give the Assassin advantage on attack against creatures affected by various condition (Poisoned, Restrained, Grappled)

 

[Stormonu]

I have come to despise the Assassin subclass for Rogue. With your player wanting a poisoner, I'd take a glance at the Artificer and Alchemist subclass for a few ideas. Creating a poisoned infusion (experimental elixir ability) that you apply to enemies instead of yourself seems like it would be very appropriate.

Also, including my Slayer replacement for Assassin, if anyone is interested.

Spoiler

Slayer​

The slayer is a vigilante who has devoted themselves to the destruction of an individual, organization or even a creature. Gifted with a knack for finding and dispatching foes, they are feared for their reputed abilities to get past any defense or barrier to locate and dispatch their target.

Bonus Proficiencies​

When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with the disguise kit and the poisoner’s kit.

Find And Dispatch​

Starting at 3rd level, you gain access to a small group of spells. You can use one of the two spells of each spell level once per long rest. Your spellcasting ability for these spells is Intelligence and the DC is 8 + your Proficiency Modifier + your Intelligence modifier.

Level​	Spell​
3rd​	Disguise Self, Expedious Retreat (self only)​
5th​	Invisibility (self only), Silence​
7th​	Gaseous Form (self only), Nondetection (self only)​
9th​	Arcane Eye, Locate Creature​
11th​	Mislead, Passwall​
13th​	Eyebite, True Seeing (self only)​
15th​	Project Image, Teleport (self only)​

Slayer’s Strike​

At 3rd level, you can use your bonus action to give yourself advantage on your next attack.

You also have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn’t taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.

Lingering Strike​

At 9th level, when you hit an opponent with an attack, at the start of their turn they must make a Constitution saving throw (DC of 8 + your proficiency modifier + Dexterity modifier). On a failure, they take damage equal to your proficiency modifier. On a success, this effect ends. A creature may only be affected by one lingering strike at a time, regardless of the number of times it has been hit.

Death Strike​

Starting at 13th level, you become a master of instant death. When you attack and hit a creature that is surprised, it must make a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + your Dexterity modifier + your proficiency bonus). On a failed save, double the damage of your attack against the creature.

Nothing is Invincible​

At 17th level, as a bonus action, when you attack you can negate a target’s damage resistances and treat the target’s damage immunities as damage resistances. You can do this a number of times equal to your proficiency modifier. You regain all uses of this ability after a long rest.

 

[CleverNickName]

I have come to despise the Assassin subclass for Rogue. With your player wanting a poisoner, I'd take a glance at the Artificer and Alchemist subclass for a few ideas. Creating a poisoned infusion (experimental elixir ability) that you apply to enemies instead of yourself seems like it would be very appropriate.

Also, including my Slayer replacement for Assassin, if anyone is interested.

I know right? I pitched the idea of an Artificer, but the player isn't interested in changing classes. He wants to keep playing a Rogue assassin; he just wants it to be more poisony, less stabby.

The Slayer subclass you have there looks great, but I think it's got a little too much oomph for our table.

 

[jmartkdr2]

This isn't a bad idea, but that kind of item crafting is already covered elsewhere in my campaign, and it can be used by any character class--not just rogues.

Spoiler: In a Nutshell--

At around 4th or 5th level, the characters started finding scrolls with formulae written on them. If they gather the ingredients in the formula, and have proficiency with the right tools (Alchemist Tools, Poisoner's Kit, etc.) they can craft the item over Downtime. This is one of the benefits of joining the Iron Cauldrons faction: members get access to new formulas every so often.

Our cleric is fond of making "holy hand grenades," a modified alchemist's fire that deals Radiant damage instead of Fire damage. Requires 1 vial of holy water, 1 vial of alchemist fire, and 1 day of downtime to craft each grenade.

If I didn't already have something like this in my campaign, I think it would make an excellent 3rd level feature instead of the Poison Spray cantrip.

If you don't already have them, "poisons that work on specific normally-immune targets" might be a good addition to the list. Like anti-vampire poison that only poisons vampires, but ignores their native poison immunity.