Zardnaar
Legend
Glorious.
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D&D 5E Attack of the Clones: Simulacrum
- Thread starter Zardnaar
- Start date
Glorious.
cake quarry
First Post
no the spell says if you cast the spell again previous simulacrums are destroyed and the simulacrums can work as completely independent cretures so every clone could only create one more clone
You are correct that it's not an exponential growth scenario; each clone can only produce one more. However, wish has a 1-action casting time, so the growth, while linear, is very rapid. In one hour, you can have 600 clones. In twelve hours, you can have over seven thousand.
They will, of course, be lacking 9th- and 7th-level slots (since you used your 7th-level slot to cast simulacrum, and each clone has to cast wish to create the next in the chain). That makes them roughly equivalent to 13th-level wizards, only with an 8th-level slot instead of a 7th-level one. Seven thousand 13th-level wizards is... scary, to say the least.
cake quarry
First Post
well they copy the statistics of the creature that is targeted so if you take a rest to regain those slots before they copied you then they would have a 7th level slot
jgsugden
Legend
Necromancy thread! Back from the dead!
Solve the problem with a tweak - there can be only 1 (copy) regardless of who makes it. If you make a simulacrum of you and then it makes a simulacrum of you, it destroys itself.
Solve the problem with Divine Intervention - The Gods of Magic don't like it and step in to prevent you from meddling in magic in ways that you shouldn't - perhaps they give the simulacra free will and competing goals to the PC? Or they just destroy them? Or they prevent the wizard from ever using wish or simulacrum again?
Solve the problem with an arms race - If the PCs can do it, so can enemies. What do the wizards of the world do when someone comes up with a spell that could conquer everything? A treaty that prevents the use of the spell.
Solve the problem with a tweak - there can be only 1 (copy) regardless of who makes it. If you make a simulacrum of you and then it makes a simulacrum of you, it destroys itself.
Solve the problem with Divine Intervention - The Gods of Magic don't like it and step in to prevent you from meddling in magic in ways that you shouldn't - perhaps they give the simulacra free will and competing goals to the PC? Or they just destroy them? Or they prevent the wizard from ever using wish or simulacrum again?
Solve the problem with an arms race - If the PCs can do it, so can enemies. What do the wizards of the world do when someone comes up with a spell that could conquer everything? A treaty that prevents the use of the spell.
cake quarry
First Post
the reason the first tweak may no work is in some modules villans might try to copy heroes to be minions
cake quarry
First Post
the thing that I think bothers me about the first two aproaches is they are just dm saying "no!" rather obviously but the third option seems more like an actual story tied limit to simulacrum that would be less likely to make players feel like dm was just outright saying "no!"
One area that hasn't been explored that much is around the quote "it operators as you direct on your initiative".
That suggests to me it has no independent thought...even intelligent mounts get their own initiative.
Further, you could really push the "cannot learn" notion. For example, if a simulacrum cast another one...would it actually know it had done so?" Would it even know who to direct? Now it's intelligent so it could be told...but how long would it retain that knowledge?
One interpretation is that the simulacrum needs constant instruction...else it forgets what you told it.
That suggests to me it has no independent thought...even intelligent mounts get their own initiative.
Further, you could really push the "cannot learn" notion. For example, if a simulacrum cast another one...would it actually know it had done so?" Would it even know who to direct? Now it's intelligent so it could be told...but how long would it retain that knowledge?
One interpretation is that the simulacrum needs constant instruction...else it forgets what you told it.
Fanaelialae
Legend
IMO, there is a distinction between learning and recalling information. While it could be interpreted the way you suggest (the simulacrum cannot "learn" the name of someone new) I believe the intent is that it cannot learn new skills.
IMO, a simulacrum could read a physics textbook. With a good enough intelligence check it might even be able to recite what it had read. However, despite being able to do so, if you asked it to apply the contents of the book towards a relatively simple problem, it would be unable to do so as it does not comprehend the subject matter any more than a computer could. (Obviously, there are computers that can solve rather complex physics problems, but that is only because a person created a set of simplistic instructions for how to do so - I'm excluding the field of machine learning herein, obviously. )
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
Solve the problem by just copy-pasting the spell from 3.5. In that one, each simulacrum was half the level of the original. So your simulacra could do normal day-to-day stuff, but they weren't really competitive as adventurers, and certainly couldn't chain simulacra.
On the plus side, you can make clones of interesting things (like a simulacra beholder to use as a construction laborer) and don't have a limit on numbers (so you can have a tower full of simulacra lab assistants).
On the plus side, you can make clones of interesting things (like a simulacra beholder to use as a construction laborer) and don't have a limit on numbers (so you can have a tower full of simulacra lab assistants).
