D&D 5E Automatic Damage Is Still a Problem

[ren1999]

This still isn't working out. With low starting hit points, it is terrible.

Clone the elf wizard.
Each has 6 hit points.
Each has Magic Missile automatic 1d4+1 damage
Burning Hands 4d4 damage roll 1d20+int mod? versus the attacker's DC10+int mod for half damage.

The first wizard casts Magic Missile twice during the encounter and didn't roll once before the second wizard was dead.

In the second encounter the first wizard casts Burning Hands and does 12 damage. The second wizard rolls his save versus DC13 and takes 6 damage which still kills him.

My friends, these are game breakers. The Players don't like automatic damage, get rid of it.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

The Players?

The other solutions of course, are more HP, or different damage for those spells.

 

[Blackbrrd]

I would say that the problem isn't the automatic damage, but the low hp compared to damage. Personally I think they should start out basically everybody with more hp. For instance con score instead of modifier at first level. In addition I would like the hp and damage of spells and abilities to scale pretty slowly, in other words, no con modifier to hp each level.

 

[DEFCON 1]

My friends, these are game breakers. The Players don't like automatic damage, get rid of it.

And yet except for the two years between 4E and Essentials... we have almost 40 years of people playing with automatic damage from Magic Missile... seemingly fine with it.

I would suggest that perhaps the others are right and its more a starting HP concern rather than an automatic damage concern.

 

[slobo777]

It's also only a problem with game mechanics if you have both:

1) Low-level play

and

2) Either player-v-player or monsters using the same auto-damage effects

Meaning you can fix the wizard-kills-wizard situations by having them occur from about level 3 onwards.

Besides which, this is still probability based, it's not actually an auto-kill, just no roll to hit required. Two magic missiles could do 4 or 5 points damage (3 in 16 chance).

IIRC, in 2e and 3e, Fireball and Lightning Bolt were always a problem in this regard anyway, and Wizards and Sorcerers can effectively one-shot each other with varying probabilities throughout all levels of play (at high level - edit: 3e -, they have a good chance of one-shotting many other PC builds as well), unless the players invest resources in making the characters tougher (which is not a core competency of a Wizard, thus often overlooked as suboptimal)

 

[billd91]

This still isn't working out. With low starting hit points, it is terrible.

Clone the elf wizard.
Each has 6 hit points.
Each has Magic Missile automatic 1d4+1 damage


The first wizard casts Magic Missile twice during the encounter and didn't roll once before the second wizard was dead.


My friends, these are game breakers. The Players don't like automatic damage, get rid of it.

I cut out the burning hands part of the post but there are more editions of D&D where this is true (or even harsher) than where it isn't and a lot of people played those editions successfully. In 1e/2e, that magic missile does an average of 3.5 points of damage while the wizard had only an average of 2.5 hit points. A second hit was probably unnecessary.

This is only a game breaker if your assumption is that PCs should be more durable at 1st level. It isn't really a game breaker if the evidence of a lot of people playing wizards throughout the years is taken into consideration.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Auto damage is ok!

But I believe, level 1 attacks are too plenty and too lethal for the low number of starting hp. This level 1 is rather level 2 or 3 attack wise...

Solution: Scale first level hp a little bit up, but insert "adept levels" (probably after core)

 

[Hautamaki]

A smart DM is going to give 1st level characters plenty of chances to ambush monsters or pick them off 1 at a time, and a smart group of players are going to look for those opportunities and seize them. That's what 1st level play is all about imo. Players looking to be able to wade right into the monster's nest with no plans and no preparation and come out on top just because they're the 'heroes' are probably not looking for typical 1st level play and should start at a higher level.

 

[mlund]

Isn't this why Wizards learn to cast Shield?

- Marty Lund

 

[JeffB]

And yet except for the two years between 4E and Essentials... we have almost 40 years of people playing with automatic damage from Magic Missile... seemingly fine with it..

Yup.