Bane - Bows and Arrows

[Telas]

OK, from the SRD:

A bane weapon excels at attacking one type or subtype of creature. Against its designated foe, its effective enhancement bonus is +2 better than its normal enhancement bonus. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the foe. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the bane quality upon their ammunition.

So a +1 Bane arrow fired from a +5 bow would be +5 Bane. Easy enough, as the enchantment effects do not stack.

But let's reverse that. A +5 arrow fired from a +1 Bane bow.

Does the arrow jump to +7 Bane? Because by a strict reading of the text, the "bane quality" (+2 better than its normal enhancement bonus) should apply.

Thanks for any input.

Telas

 

[frankthedm]

Yeah...

1. Bane is a bit undercosted. +1 is a real steal if you know whay your foe is, but +2 may be too costly for some folks.

2. Bows and arrows let a lot of magic get squeezed into ranged attack rolls. On the surface this would seem costly, but Greater Magic Weapon lets the arrow cost be priacticly ignored.

 

[MarkB]

I find the easiest and most consistent way to look at launcher and ammunition stacking to be to just consider that all the abilities are placed on the weapon as a whole. So if you have a +5 bow and a +1 bane arrow, what you have, in total, is a +5 bane bow-and-arrow. Likewise if you have a +1 bane bow firing a +5 arrow.

 

[Patlin]

Well, I like MarkB's way better, but it seems to me that a +5 Bow firing a +1 Bane Arrow against the correct target is equivalent to a +5 Bow firing a +3 arrow with 2d6 extra damage.

That'd be a +5 arrow dealing 2d6 extra damage.

 

[Klaus]

The arrow gets +5 attack, +5 damage (from the bow) and +2 attack and +2d6 damage (from the bane quality).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Well, I like MarkB's way better, but it seems to me that a +5 Bow firing a +1 Bane Arrow against the correct target is equivalent to a +5 Bow firing a +3 arrow with 2d6 extra damage.

I agree.

The Bane arrow has an enhancement bonus +2 better than normal; that's +3.

Only the better of the two enhancement bonuses (+5 for the bow, +3 for the arrow) applies; that's +5.

More interesting to figure out is the +5 Bane bow firing the +1 arrow. We know that the bow bestows the Bane quality on its ammo, so the effective enhancement bonus of the arrow is +3. But it's not clear whether the bow retains the Bane quality for itself as well as bestowing it on the arrow. So is the effective enhancement bonus of the bow +5, or +7?

In either case, it's the bow's enhancement bonus that ends up applying (since either +5 or +7 is greater than the arrow's effective enhancement bonus of +3), but as to which it is, I'm not sure...

-Hyp.

 

[ValhallaGH]

More interesting to figure out is the +5 Bane bow firing the +1 arrow. We know that the bow bestows the Bane quality on its ammo, so the effective enhancement bonus of the arrow is +3. But it's not clear whether the bow retains the Bane quality for itself as well as bestowing it on the arrow. So is the effective enhancement bonus of the bow +5, or +7?

In either case, it's the bow's enhancement bonus that ends up applying (since either +5 or +7 is greater than the arrow's effective enhancement bonus of +3), but as to which it is, I'm not sure...

It should be +7. Otherwise you've made ranged combat weaker than melee, as a +5 bane longsword is effectively +7 against the bane target.

I can't fault your rules logic for the +5 bow firing a +1 bane arrow but I wonder at the resulting interaction. I find it weak and dissatisfying.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It should be +7. Otherwise you've made ranged combat weaker than melee, as a +5 bane longsword is effectively +7 against the bane target.

A +5 Bane arrow is effectively +7 against the Bane target, indisputably.

A +5 Bane bow? Not so sure.

-Hyp.

 

[Telas]

A +5 Bane arrow is effectively +7 against the Bane target, indisputably.

A +5 Bane bow? Not so sure.

-Hyp.

Two issues here... I agree that there should be no difference between the bow and sword. That's cool.

The question is whether the +1 Bane bow pushes a +5 arrow to +7 (against the apropos critter), or if it is treated as a +3 bow firing a +5 arrow (with additional Bane damage).

Telas

 

[Artoomis]

A +5 Bane arrow is effectively +7 against the Bane target, indisputably.

A +5 Bane bow? Not so sure.

-Hyp.

I think the way bows and arrows work it's not supposed to make any difference which is enchanted to what degree. It should come out to the same way result either way.

Since I think that's the way it was intended, I'd go with +7 either way.

BTW, I don't think it is indisputable.