Bane - Bows and Arrows

[Hypersmurf]

I agree that there should be no difference between the bow and sword.

'Should' is very personal and subjective, of course, and doesn't always have a lot to do with 'is'

The question is whether the +1 Bane bow pushes a +5 arrow to +7 (against the apropos critter), or if it is treated as a +3 bow firing a +5 arrow (with additional Bane damage).[/QUOTE]

It's a +5 arrow that has the Bane quality bestowed upon it. The Bane quality means that its enhancement bonus is treated as +2 higher than normal... so +7.

Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the bane quality upon their ammunition.

BTW, I don't think it is indisputable.

[blink] Really? What do you think the effective enhancement bonus of a +5 Goblinbane arrow works out to against a goblin? Or, indeed, of a +5 arrow that has had the Goblinbane property bestowed on it?

I think the way bows and arrows work it's not supposed to make any difference which is enchanted to what degree. It should come out to the same way result either way.

Well, I don't know about 'supposed to'. But I know that if you have a +5 bow and a +1 Bane arrow, you end up with a +5 and a +3, only the highest of which applies... not a +7. Whereas a +1 bow and a +5 Bane arrow is +7. So there's definitely a difference depending on where your enhancement bonuses go.

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

A +5 Bane arrow is effectively +7 against the Bane target, indisputably.

Everything is disputable!

(For argument's sake here, academically-speaking if you will...)

"Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5."

I see no room for a higher enhancement bonus for a magic weapon. For it to be +7, it must either be epic (special rules) or not a magic weapon. So, wouldn't it be reasonable to say that it caps at +5? Bonus = min(5+2,5)?

Also, I'm not sold on the +2 increase being applied to the arrow (as indicated in that previous thread which I do not feel like searching for).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Also, I'm not sold on the +2 increase being applied to the arrow (as indicated in that previous thread which I do not feel like searching for).

What do you feel "Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the bane quality upon their ammunition" means?

For it to be +7, it must either be epic (special rules)...

How special can it be, if it's referenced in the Monster Manual?

A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures’ natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

-Hyp.

 

[Telas]

'Should' is very personal and subjective, of course, and doesn't always have a lot to do with 'is'

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

Bill Clinton

 

[MarkB]

Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the bane quality upon their ammunition.

Right, but bows, crossbows and slings with an enhancement bonus also bestow that bonus on their ammunition - a +1 arrow fired from a +5 bow is considered a +5 arrow for all practical purposes - so a +1 Bane arrow loaded into a +5 bow is a +5 bane arrow.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Right, but bows, crossbows and slings with an enhancement bonus also bestow that bonus on their ammunition.

No, they don't.

Ranged Weapons and Ammunition: The enhancement bonus from a ranged weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus from ammunition. Only the higher of the two enhancement bonuses applies.

Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have).

The bow doesn't bestow the enhancement bonus on the ammunition; rather, the higher of the two bonuses applies, and the arrow is treated as a magic weapon for purpose of DR.

The arrow's enhancement bonus is still +1, and the bow's enhancement bonus is still +5, and you apply the +5. But the arrow's enhancement bonus doesn't become +5.

-Hyp.

 

[ValhallaGH]

A +5 Bane arrow is effectively +7 against the Bane target, indisputably.

Agreed.

A +5 Bane bow? Not so sure.

By your reasoning, I can see why there is confusion. Since I can't fault your reasoning, I'll go with the assumption that a +5 Bane bow firing a non-epic arrow at a target of the bane quality acts as if it was a +7 bow and deals an extra 2d6 bane damage.

 

[Hypersmurf]

By your reasoning, I can see why there is confusion. Since I can't fault your reasoning, I'll go with the assumption that a +5 Bane bow firing a non-epic arrow at a target of the bane quality acts as if it was a +7 bow and deals an extra 2d6 bane damage.

Which is completely valid, as long as we assume that the process of the bow bestowing the Bane quality on the ammunition does not prevent the bow benefiting from the Bane quality itself.

-Hyp.

 

[MarkB]

No, they don't.

Ranged Weapons and Ammunition: The enhancement bonus from a ranged weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus from ammunition. Only the higher of the two enhancement bonuses applies.

Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have).

The bow doesn't bestow the enhancement bonus on the ammunition; rather, the higher of the two bonuses applies, and the arrow is treated as a magic weapon for purpose of DR.

The arrow's enhancement bonus is still +1, and the bow's enhancement bonus is still +5, and you apply the +5. But the arrow's enhancement bonus doesn't become +5.

-Hyp.

I'm not convinced of that. The bow applies its 'magic-ness' to non-magical ammunition for purposes of overcoming damage reduction, and all its other special abilities are delivered via the arrow. If the +5 to damage isn't being applied to the arrow, how is it reaching the target?

I just think the rules leave some room for interpretation here - "only the higher of the two enhancement bonuses applies" could mean that the higher of the two applies to both bow and arrow when you put them together. And that interpretation just makes all the subsequent interpretations of how ammo and launcher abilities stack a lot more consistent.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If the +5 to damage isn't being applied to the arrow, how is it reaching the target?

Launched harder? A composite bow built for 20 Strength adds +5 to damage, but it isn't bestowed on the arrow...

-Hyp.